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Old 01-21-2006, 12:39 PM   #1
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He is at it again!

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/672977.html

The President of Iran is Challenging Europe to take all Israelies and have them live in Europe.

This President will continue to be a problem. As far as Europe and The US attacking it's a 50/50 chance.
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Old 01-21-2006, 12:43 PM   #2
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A lot of world leaders will use populist bigotry to win elections or to divert from domestic failures. The Republican Party is a master at this here in the U.S.

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Old 01-21-2006, 12:51 PM   #3
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well with alot of Conservative parties winning lately, there could be another popular war among the political parties.
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Old 01-21-2006, 01:52 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
A lot of world leaders will use populist bigotry to win elections or to divert from domestic failures. The Republican Party is a master at this here in the U.S.

Melon
Interesting observation - as always-, melon.
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Old 01-21-2006, 02:32 PM   #5
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Many presidents re or have been a problem.

But you can't attack every country only because its Presidant is an idiot. You have to find other ways.
Killing people really is no way to solve problems unless evidence is proven that you can't do it another way, like WWII.
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Old 01-21-2006, 04:16 PM   #6
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I don't want to bomb Iran just because it's got such a nutjob president. There are plenty of odious potentates on this planet. We can't just rid the world of evil rulers with wars. That's not realistic.
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Old 01-21-2006, 06:36 PM   #7
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On Iran the US has fucked around far too much. Here is a country that has consistently supported your enemies abroad, sought to destabilize Iraq, made promises of genocide on numerous occasions and now has a true believer in charge who drops diplomatic nicities. Those nuclear facilities, however distributed, should be wiped off the face of the planet - diplomacy will not work, the regime has made it abundantly clear where it stands. Waiting for them to get weapons and putting sanctions on the country would be disasterous, simply allowing the weapons to be developed would be disasterous. We have all the bad choices as a result of convergence of events.

The possibility that the man is a true believer does not seem to even be entertained, we will see how he "panders to his base" when the weapons are actually there, 10 to 100 million dead in the Middle East could be our oft-repeated "never again" where the world can go through the motions of pretending it couldn't have known or that it was all bad.

"The smoking gun that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud." - Condoleeza Rice - how about some fucking consistency (not invade Iran, there is no need - remove the chance of it going nuclear and start supporting internal dissent a lot more. US troops in the country will make the current slightly pro-US and fiercly anti-Mullah attitude shift).

If I may also highlight a few key differences between Iran and Iraq. In Iraq the USA managed to loose a lot of favour by not only abandoning the Shiites to Saddam after the Gulf War but also letting Helicopter Gunships crush the rebellion - this was done in the name of stability because the realists felt that having a Shiite government would be giving too much influence by Iran - fifteen years later and now there will be a government of national unity but with fair Shiite representation. In Iran the USA hasn't made or broken promises that resulted in mass death of the people.

The numbers of people being killed is different. Iran is a softer dictatorship than Iraq, the grip on free expression does not rest with the Mullahs. People are not dying in the tens or hundreds of thousands at the hands of their government. More people would die if the regime was removed with military force than if it is left in place as it is. The calculus here could change if sanctions were applied or if the regime gains nuclear weapons and has free hand to crack down on internal dissent without fear of international reprisal (the nuclear umbrella).

In terms of internal opposition Iran has a much better base with which to forment revolution against the Mullahs. There remains room for less overt means of excercising power to a desired end. This had been attempted against Saddam and had failed spectacularly.

Iran is a very different situation than Iraq, all out war would not deliver any desirable ends, allowing nuclear weapons in the hands of the Mullahs is not desirable. A limited strike against nuclear facilities like the IAF one against Osirak followed by more support for the Iranian pro-Democracy movement is the most favourable that results in the least death.
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Old 01-21-2006, 07:35 PM   #8
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I would support an action to destroy Iran's nuclear facilities.

This is a country led by nutjobs, and I don't believe we are in a position to give them latitude here. Their leadership is bellicose, unwilling to co-operate, obstinate (they make the North Koreans look like model diplomats), racist, and downright dangerous.
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Old 01-21-2006, 07:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
I would support an action to destroy Iran's nuclear facilities.

This is a country led by nutjobs, and I don't believe we are in a position to give them latitude here. Their leadership is bellicose, unwilling to co-operate, obstinate (they make the North Koreans look like model diplomats), racist, and downright dangerous.
Damn. You've got a point; I'm re-thinking my position. I'm getting tired of this guy's anti-Semitic tirades. He's serious.
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Old 01-21-2006, 07:45 PM   #10
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It's starting again...

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” -

Joseph Goebbels
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Old 01-21-2006, 07:48 PM   #11
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It's time for a little talk with Israel, imo...
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Old 01-21-2006, 08:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
It's starting again...

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” -

Joseph Goebbels
So who do you think is lying? The Iranian regime when it promises to wipe Israel off the face of the map regardless to the damage Israel could inflict upon the world of Islam or the EU3 and USA who have pursued diplomacy to no avail.

There is no benefit to invading Iran, "it" is not starting again - Iran will not be invaded. It would be a real act of strategic insanity.
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Old 01-21-2006, 08:02 PM   #13
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I read an article in the Spectator about this a year ago, seemingly the sites are dispersed so it's difficult to take out all of them.
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Old 01-21-2006, 08:04 PM   #14
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^true.

http://www.armscontrolwonk.com/945/i...an-to-the-bomb
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Old 01-21-2006, 08:14 PM   #15
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Well its nice that you all seem to think this fun little war wouldn't have consequences. Like disrupting the oil supply. Example - take out their nuclear sites, why should they continue selling their oil? Force them to sell their oil? How? Occupy the country? With what? It's all so complicated!

I'm quite content to accept that Iran appears to be run by bad people... but after that it all gets a bit murky.
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