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Old 12-24-2002, 07:46 AM   #31
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Re: Re: Hmmmm

Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader

It could be worse - he could have said something nice about Strom Thurmond.

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Old 12-24-2002, 08:29 AM   #32
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Quick!!!! Make her a citizen and have her run for Lott's seat in the Senate!!!!

Woman who nursed puppies has no regrets

A young Norwegian mother who took a litter of puppies to her own breast when her dog died giving birth remains proud of her unusual move. Now, six weeks later, both her infant son and eight of the puppies that survived are crawling around the family's Christmas tree in Siggerud, west of Oslo.



Kine Skiaker, her son Emil and eight puppies are celebrating Christmas at the Skiaker home west of Oslo.

PHOTO: OLAV OLSEN
RELATED ARTICLES
Young mother nursed orphaned pups - 11.11.02

"I've had lots of reaction, mostly positive," Kine Skiaker tells newspaper Aftenposten. But Skiaker also had to tolerate some less-than-flattering remarks.
"No one has complained to me directly, but I've heard from others that some people thought it was disgusting that I would nurse Emil (her son) and the puppies at the same time," she said. "I just have to tolerate that, and can only say that I washed myself thoroughly after I'd nursed the puppies."

Skiaker says she's also been told by experts that she helped save the puppies' lives. "That makes me feel good," she said. "Then I can accept that some think what I did was nauseating."

The drama began Friday November 8 when Skiaker's Canarian Warren Hound, named Aida, started giving birth to a litter of 14 puppies. Suddenly the puppies stopped coming and the next stop was the vet's office.

In the end, both Aida and three of the puppies died, while another three died later.

Those that survived were in desperate need of nourishment, and that's when Skiaker impulsively took them to her breast. She fed them over that first weekend, until surrogate mother dogs could be found to take over.

Today, the eight surviving puppies (four males and four females) are back in the Skiaker's home and in good health. So is baby Emil, now five months old and happy to play with his canine comrades in the Skiakers' living room.

One of the puppies will be soon be delivered to new owners in Kongsberg. She's the only one with a name, so far, and it's Aida, after her late mother.
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Old 12-24-2002, 09:40 AM   #33
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If the election were held today, I would probably vote for him, depending on who his opponents are. I knew it would only be a matter of time before the "truth behind Bill Frist" articles begin to surface. He also broke up with a fiance prior to their wedding, so he must be a very, very bad man.

As bonosloveslave pointed out, students of veterinary medicine dissect cats, as well as dogs and other furry friends, quite often. I know someone who attended medical school just as Senator Frist did, and they dissected cats before they moved up to dissecting human cadavers. The human cadavers were from people who had died of natural causes and donated their remains to science in advance. The cats were not necessarily natural deaths. In 6th grade science class, we dissected a frog and a baby pig.

What is your opinon on animals used for research for medical cures? I hat eto inform you of this, but animals have even perished for AIDS research.

The lady who nursed the puppies may have a chance in Mississippi as duck hunting and other bird hunting is very popular there, and dogs are a valuable part of that practice.

At least for the sake of consistency, ALL of the people criticizing Senator Frist for this are 100% vegetarians.

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Old 12-24-2002, 10:01 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama

What is your opinon on animals used for research for medical cures? I hate to inform you of this, but animals have even perished for AIDS research.
Overall I think animal research is a good thing, as long as it is humanely carried out. Often, we are able to 'kill 2 birds with one stone' - drugs or treatments may end up being useful for both humans and animals at the end of a project. There are quite a few drugs out there that are safe or have few side effects in animals but ended up not being suitable for human use - many animals have still benefited.

Like it or not, humans are more valuable than animals, and though not all research is applicable across all species, we can get a lot of good info from research using animals and spare many human lives in the process. When it is possilbe to use other means for research, such as computer simulations or past case studies, I would wholeheartedly say to use that info first.
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Old 12-24-2002, 11:20 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonosloveslave


Like it or not, humans are more valuable than animals....
ah shite
i dont stand a chance.
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Old 12-24-2002, 11:44 AM   #36
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Originally posted by diamond


ah shite
i dont stand a chance.
Awww......I still love you Dave - I promise to never conduct experiments on you
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Old 12-24-2002, 11:46 AM   #37
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I normally don't post in FYM because I'm not overly fond of controversy. But I saw the heading of this thread, and honestly, I thought of Jack the Ripper! I'm reading Patricia Cornwell's book about him, "Portrait of a Killer". This is not cool about the cats.... ugh.
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Old 12-24-2002, 12:51 PM   #38
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We need Martha to keep people on topic.

1. This is not about animal research, these cat killings were not done as part of his course study.
2. To go to the humane society and adopt pets to kill them is illegal, the statue of limitations has expired by now.
3. We donít live in a world were people are punished for your perception of Godís sins. In the real world lying and murder are not equal.
4. He was a med student. He was over 18 years, an adult. He broke a law. Maybe, a felony? A law breaker leading the republicans? Any of these cats could have been someones family pet.
5. If your family pet got loose and was at the humane society, would you want it to end like this.
6. I donít believe our Vet-student or our Med-student would ever dream of doing anything like this.



Some of the rationalization is very interesting to me. To give the alternative of killing children or this behavior is absurd.

The alternative is to follow the course study and dissect animals in class or break the law and kill what we consider family pets.

All that being said, the reason I posted this was not to slam him. But, to ask the question ďWould you vote for him.?" I gave my answer in my initial post.
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Old 12-24-2002, 12:55 PM   #39
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Re: We need Martha to keep people on topic.

Quote:
Originally posted by deep





All that being said, the reason I posted this was not to slam him. I gave my answer in my initial post.
Hi Bias-

plez define slam..
is it just less than besmirching one's good character?
help us out.

thank u..

DB9
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Old 12-24-2002, 01:07 PM   #40
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As some other people have pointed out, dissection is common in medical schools, allied health schools, nursing schools, and anywhere else you have to learn anatomy and go to those labs to pass the course. The students don't really have a choice so it's not fair to hold them responsible for the morality of the thing.
OK, enough controversy for today.
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Old 12-24-2002, 01:20 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama
If the election were held today, I would probably vote for him, depending on who his opponents are. I knew it would only be a matter of time before the "truth behind Bill Frist" articles begin to surface. He also broke up with a fiance prior to their wedding, so he must be a very, very bad man.


I think that's true for all politicians though, in fact for most people who are "famous" in any way. It's not specifically because he's a Republican.

Quote:
As bonosloveslave pointed out, students of veterinary medicine dissect cats, as well as dogs and other furry friends, quite often.


There is a world of difference between a student of medicine or veterinary science dissecting an animal as part of their studies and adopting an animal under the pretense of giving it a good home and then killing it and dissecting it. It's not just that he dissected an animal, it's that he intentionally killed a healthy cat which he pretended he was going to offer a home to.

People often give pets to a humane society etc because they're not able to take care of them anymore and they want them to have a good home...how would you feel if you had to give up your pet and you found that someone had adopted it in order to kill it? If he hadn't killed those animals they could have been adopted by people who would have given them a good home for the rest of their lives.
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Old 12-24-2002, 01:27 PM   #42
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There are more articles out there on Frist.

I am not going to post them, all.

The initial question was could you vote for someone who did this.

Many people have a right/ wrong mentality. Evil doers, etc. Either you are with us or against us.

Life is more complicated than that.

This seems to be prevalent in Conservatives groups.

It seems to me that people with that thinking have tried to color this behavior as something different than it was.

At election time, in the voting booth, we really only have two choices. No reason to be partisan 24/7. Save it for the booth.

Why it is not a slam in my opinion is because it is public information, true and something that was not in the discussion to hail Frist as the Second Coming.



After all, Rep r ppl too. They sin, lie, break laws and occasionally get elevated to high office.


Maybe, some of you might have liked it better if I posted, would you vote for a man that goes to Africa and does surgery in villages under the light of flashlights.

What would be the point in that?
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Old 12-24-2002, 01:37 PM   #43
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Re: Re: Re: Hmmmm

Quote:
Originally posted by bonosloveslave


I guess what I meant is, we all decide for ourselves (consciously or not) 'how bad is too bad'. Some think Frist shouldn't be elected if he runs for prez because of the cat situation. Others would say, well, if he murdered a person, that would be REALLY bad, then he definitely shouldn't get to be prez. Some would say the same if there was adultery in his past, where others would say who cares? What if he shoplifted as a 10 year old? At 40? At 10 years old, he would know what he was doing was wrong, but I bet alot of people would cut him some slack, vs. an incident occuring at 40 - BUT - shoplifting is shoplifting is shoplifting...........

Sorry to use these crappy examples, I don't mean to imply that Frist has done any of the above things

*WE* judge what will disqualify someone (in our eyes) from being a worthy leader of our country. In the big scheme of things, God doesn't keep a point sheet when we do something wrong - "Uhoh, white lie = 1 point - oh, there he goes again, stole an extra newspaper = 5 points..."

US3 the "google"-meister breathes a sigh of relief!
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Old 12-24-2002, 01:45 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Quick!!!! Make her a citizen and have her run for Lott's seat in the Senate!!!!

Woman who nursed puppies has no regrets

A young Norwegian mother who took a litter of puppies to her own breast when her dog died giving birth remains proud of her unusual move. Now, six weeks later, both her infant son and eight of the puppies that survived are crawling around the family's Christmas tree in Siggerud, west of Oslo.



Kine Skiaker, her son Emil and eight puppies are celebrating Christmas at the Skiaker home west of Oslo.

PHOTO: OLAV OLSEN
RELATED ARTICLES
Young mother nursed orphaned pups - 11.11.02

"I've had lots of reaction, mostly positive," Kine Skiaker tells newspaper Aftenposten. But Skiaker also had to tolerate some less-than-flattering remarks.
"No one has complained to me directly, but I've heard from others that some people thought it was disgusting that I would nurse Emil (her son) and the puppies at the same time," she said. "I just have to tolerate that, and can only say that I washed myself thoroughly after I'd nursed the puppies."

Skiaker says she's also been told by experts that she helped save the puppies' lives. "That makes me feel good," she said. "Then I can accept that some think what I did was nauseating."

The drama began Friday November 8 when Skiaker's Canarian Warren Hound, named Aida, started giving birth to a litter of 14 puppies. Suddenly the puppies stopped coming and the next stop was the vet's office.

In the end, both Aida and three of the puppies died, while another three died later.

Those that survived were in desperate need of nourishment, and that's when Skiaker impulsively took them to her breast. She fed them over that first weekend, until surrogate mother dogs could be found to take over.

Today, the eight surviving puppies (four males and four females) are back in the Skiaker's home and in good health. So is baby Emil, now five months old and happy to play with his canine comrades in the Skiakers' living room.

One of the puppies will be soon be delivered to new owners in Kongsberg. She's the only one with a name, so far, and it's Aida, after her late mother.
wonder what the public breast feeding laws are in norway.
Lady! Get a pump and an eye dropper!

In a related matter lil Emil has been reported to compulsively scratch behind his ear, and in a "pavlovian-like" manner pee on newspaper when it is laid out.
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Old 12-25-2002, 12:07 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
There are more articles out there on Frist.

1-I am not going to post them, all.

2-The initial question was could you vote for someone who did this.

3-Many people have a right/ wrong mentality. Evil doers, etc. Either you are with us or against us.

4-Life is more complicated than that.

5-This seems to be prevalent in Conservatives groups.



6-Why it is not a slam in my opinion is because it is public information, true and something that was not in the discussion to hail Frist as the Second Coming.



7-After all, Rep r ppl too. They sin, lie, break laws and occasionally get elevated to high office.


8-Maybe, some of you might have liked it better if I posted, would you vote for a man that goes to Africa and does surgery in villages under the light of flashlights.

9-What would be the point in that?
chain/Hi Bias/deep and other various sundry alters

1--that must of took some real restraint.

2-yes based on he qwikly coming clean, and his track record in public office.

3-swipe at GW.*

4-der..

5- another predictable swipe at a certain group.

6-i dont see conservative members posting threads about character flaws in ppl from over a quarter CENTURY ago.
Other than to denengrate this person's character that has NOTHING do w his service NOW, whats the purpose of this thread?

7- that would be correct, however when caught they-
-come clean
-know the definition of "is:"-
and take ownership of their errors and responsibilities.
thank u very much.

8-that would be above you, based on your posting history here.

9-my point exactly.

peace-
Out

Diamond
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