Hate!!!

[Justin24]

No instincts aren't we mammals so like all creatures (yes I said creatures) we all have instincts.

 

[BVS]

it is one of the most common emotions.

True. But this doesn't mean we all have it, and it definately doesn't mean we are born with it.

Just like not everyone loves or knows empathy.

 

[BVS]

can you explain more about humans not having true instincts?

Well this is still up for debate, many experts are torn, but here's the side I've always leaned towards.

Elementary explanation:

Humans have reflexes. Infants will close their eyes when exposed to strong light. Our body will tell us we're hungry so we cry, etc

These are reflexes.

Animals have true instincts. A particular species of digger wasp, which finds and captures only honeybees. With no previous experience, a female wasp will unearth an intricate burrow, find a bee, paralyze it with a careful and precise sting to the neck, pilot back to her discreet home, and, when the larder has been supplied with the correct number of bees, lay an egg on one of them and seal the chamber.


Like I said it's still very debated even today...

 

[Justin24]

So if its up for debate then you can't say people have no instinct.

 

[A_Wanderer]

All those things are hard wired; behaviours that mediate social networks and evolutionary spandrels of higher intelligence; if we aren't trying to put the world in a moral framework with meaning then this isn't problematic.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Well this is still up for debate, many experts are torn, but here's the side I've always leaned towards.

Well, when it's still on debate between many experts you can't tell someone that is "such crap".

I don't know, but I couldn't imagine a person that wouldn't feel hate at any point.
And nobody has to teach you to hate, but something or something will for sure make you feel hate him or it in some way.

I don't know if hate is more an instinct or a feeling. But I would tend to say it is a feeling, whereas I would put something as fear as an instinct.

This is not necessarily backed scientifically, but I don't feel the need of backing everything scientiffically.

And so far I've often heard that fear is somehow an instinct to make us more alert and careful.

 

[A_Wanderer]

That is such crap!!!

In fact, the majority of experts will tell you humans don't have true instincts. But if we did, hate wouldn't be one of them.

But now some of your threads are making sense.

Your argument is undercut somewhat by your appeal to "the majority of experts"; apart from not citing any fields of study or specific examples (the MAOA gene and preponderance to male violence or statistical correlations between blue eyes and shyness for instance) where biological variation is translated into behavioural variation; those would count as instincts, we are animals and to try and remove us simply because we are highly intelligent and sentient is misguided.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Sorry!

 

[BVS]

So if its up for debate then you can't say people have no instinct.

Seriously Justin, I'm done with you. I've asked you to read my post and you won't.

In fact, the majority of experts will tell you humans don't have true instincts. But if we did, hate wouldn't be one of them.

 

[Justin24]

Dude you said it's up for debate so don't say what I said was crap. Do you think you are always right??

 

[BVS]

Well, when it's still on debate between many experts you can't tell someone that is "such crap".

Well I qualified it by saying even if we did have instinct hate is not one of them...

 

[BVS]

Your argument is undercut somewhat by your appeal to "the majority of experts"; apart from not citing any fields of study or specific examples (the MAOA gene and preponderance to male violence or statistical correlations between blue eyes and shyness for instance) where biological variation is translated into behavioural variation; those would count as instincts, we are animals and to try and remove us simply because we are highly intelligent and sentient is misguided.

Shyness would not be an instinct.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Well I qualified it by saying even if we did have instinct hate is not one of them...

Ok, you can say so, back it by scientific knowledge, and give an explanation or something. But in my opinion just to respond with "That is such crap!!!" doesn't sound that qualified.

I also would put hate more in the category of a feeling. But I'm not an expert on that.

By the way, do you have any source that states that the majority of experts is stating that human instinct doesn't exist?

 

[A_Wanderer]

As much one as fear; it's certainly hard to think through and just willfully not be shy. We may be conflating behaviours that are programmed routines like nesting and mating (obvious clear cut instncts) with the social behaviours that have variation within species and are only recently being studied within a scientific framework (sociobiology). My point is that the human brain isn't a blank slate, it is the product of evolution and has a package ready to go; language aquistion is present in most all people around the globe, most people do have emotions as well; they are byproducts of evolution.

Heres an abstract on that subject of blue eyed boys and shyness, the hypothesis for it is interesting and deserves some consideration http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9452906

 

[verte76]

We're not born to hate. We are taught to hate.

Bingo.

 

[BVS]

By the way, do you have any source that states that the majority of experts is stating that human instinct doesn't exist?

It's been awhile since my Psychology classes, so it may be awhile, but I'll try and find something.

 

[BVS]

As much one as fear; it's certainly hard to think through and just willfully not be shy. We may be conflating behaviours that are programmed routines like nesting and mating (obvious clear cut instncts) with the social behaviours that have variation within species and are only recently being studied within a scientific framework (sociobiology). My point is that the human brain isn't a blank slate, it is the product of evolution and has a package ready to go; language aquistion is present in most all people around the globe, most people do have emotions as well; they are byproducts of evolution.

Heres an abstract on that subject of blue eyed boys and shyness, the hypothesis for it is interesting and deserves some consideration http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9452906

This is all true, but it still is debatable if these are considered scientific instinct. I never stated the brain to be a clean slate, but instinct is debatable.

 

[80sU2isBest]

That is such crap!!!

In fact, the majority of experts will tell you humans don't have true instincts. But if we did, hate wouldn't be one of them.

But now some of your threads are making sense.

That was totally uncalled for. Why do you have to personally insult the guy?

 

[dietcokeofevil]

I think that hate comes all too naturally. Sure it's learned. But it's also taught...and it doesn't come out of nowhere.

 

[80sU2isBest]

I think that hate comes all too naturally. Sure it's learned. But it's also taught...and it doesn't come out of nowhere.

Off topic, but here's a LOVE post.

I love your pseudonym. I think it is very unique and clever.

 

[dietcokeofevil]

....meaning that I think that some instincts are latent. Very easily brought up to the surface

 

[CTU2fan]

What is so special about hate? Is there some magic line that we cross, from dislike to HATE? I don't think we're born to hate either, I think we learn through our various experiences to like & dislike various things, and sometimes the degree of dislike increases until it reaches "hate" Love is much more interesting, let's talk about love instead

Also does the object of hatred have to be another person? Can you hate racism, or only individual racists? Can you hate a whole country, or an entire race or religion?

Do all or most languages have a word for hate? It would be interesting to look at different cultures to see if they have hate, if they don't then doesn't that prove 100% that hate is learned?

 

[80sU2isBest]

Also does the object of hatred have to be another person?

I hate mushrooms, but not people dressed up in mushroom costumes.

 

[BVS]

That was totally uncalled for. Why do you have to personally insult the guy?

After days of him disrespectfully ignoring my posts, maybe my patience was thin.

So when someone comes out with a(sorry but) crap theory, I'm going to call them out on it.

 

[BonosSaint]

I believe our capacity to feel hate, love, anger, fear, shyness is hardwired. None of them has to be taught on a personal level. Sure, I think you can be taught to hate a class of people, a race, etc. when there is nothing personally at stake for you. The same way I think you can be taught to love or at least profess love for all people who may or may not touch you personally. But when it's personal, I don't think you have to be taught the feeling.
What we're talking here is primal, no matter how highly developed we think we are.

 

[80sU2isBest]

After days of him disrespectfully ignoring my posts, maybe my patience was thin.

So when someone comes out with a(sorry but) crap theory, I'm going to call them out on it.

Everyone has at times ignored other people's posts...I've done it and even you have done it. That is no reason to get personal. Heck, I've been frustrated with you several times, but I've not insulted you personally.

If all you had done was call his ideas "crap", there wouldn't be that big an issue. But that wasn't all you did.

 

[BVS]

I believe our capacity to feel hate, love, anger, fear, shyness is hardwired.

I agree with this.


But like some have suggested... I just haven't met anyone coming out of the womb with a white hood and burning crosses.

 

[BonosSaint]

Yeah, but that's not personal. Impersonal hatred can be and is taught.

 

[BVS]

Everyone has at times ignored other people's posts...I've done it and even you have done it. That is no reason to get personal. Heck, I've been frustrated with you several times, but I've not insulted you personally.

If all you had done was call his ideas "crap", there wouldn't be that big an issue. But that wasn't all you did.

Woah, isn't that all I did was call his theory crap?

And I'm not talking about just not responding to a question(that would be fine), I mean purposely ignoring what I state and placing words in my mouth, or assuming.

It would be like if for days you told me "I believe Jesus is the son of God", and for days I responded by saying "well since you hate Jews...". That would irritate you at some point wouldn't it?

 

[BVS]

Yeah, but that's not personal. Impersonal hatred can be and is taught.

But personal hate is natural or automatic? How so? Who do you come out hating?