Hagel: Iraq War destablized Middle East, resembles Vietnam - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

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Old 08-23-2005, 04:16 PM   #16
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That will be wonderful. Thanks.
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Old 08-23-2005, 04:17 PM   #17
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I appreciate Hagel speaking his mind and going off party line. In hindsite though I personally would not have used the Vietnam analogy--there are many differences and his critics will have an incredibly easy time picking those out and basically saying his argument is moot. Then again, hindsite is 20/20.
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Old 08-23-2005, 04:50 PM   #18
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Re: Re: Re: Hagel: Iraq War destablized Middle East, resembles Vietnam

Quote:
Originally posted by unosdostres14



Eh...doesn't change the fact that another member of the Grand Ole Party is seeing that the Iraq war is a quagmire.

It's gonna be hard to refute the credibility of EVERY SINGLE Republican that speaks out against the war.
Its not a surprise to see Chuck Hagel doing this since he does it all the time. Also, it is not the Republican Party that is having a difficult time supporting the war, its the Democratic Party which is split down the middle. Hillary Clinton, Joseph Biden and other Democratic Senators still support the war. The Republicans are generally united in their support for the President while the Democrats are divided. Such division if continued could help insure Republican control of the White House and Congress for years to come.
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Old 08-23-2005, 06:38 PM   #19
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So.....Republicans generally are loyal to ideas of those in charge, while the Democrats actually speak out for what they themselves believe.
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Old 08-23-2005, 08:11 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by unosdostres14
So.....Republicans generally are loyal to ideas of those in charge, while the Democrats actually speak out for what they themselves believe.
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Old 08-23-2005, 08:13 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by unosdostres14
So.....Republicans generally are loyal to ideas of those in charge, while the Democrats actually speak out for what they themselves believe.
Nope, because all of them are partisans it is all dependent on who rules.
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Old 08-23-2005, 08:33 PM   #22
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Nope, because all of them are partisans it is all dependent on who rules.
I don't disagree with that. I was just summarizing what Sting said
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:32 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by unosdostres14
So.....Republicans generally are loyal to ideas of those in charge, while the Democrats actually speak out for what they themselves believe.
No the Republicans tend to have more similar views on a variety of issues, while the Democrats these days look like three different parties unable to form a consensus on the major issues which would apeal to most voters.
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Old 08-24-2005, 06:10 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2


No the Republicans tend to have more similar views on a variety of issues, while the Democrats these days look like three different parties unable to form a consensus on the major issues which would apeal to most voters.
Actually Republicans just make outkast of those that have minority views so that it appears they have similar views on a variety of issues.
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Old 08-24-2005, 03:48 PM   #25
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Who Will Say 'No More'?

By Gary Hart

Wednesday, August 24, 2005

"Waist deep in the Big Muddy and the big fool said to push on," warned an anti-Vietnam war song those many years ago. The McGovern presidential campaign, in those days, which I know something about, is widely viewed as a cause for the decline of the Democratic Party, a gateway through which a new conservative era entered.

Like the cat that jumped on a hot stove and thereafter wouldn't jump on any stove, hot or cold, today's Democratic leaders didn't want to make that mistake again. Many supported the Iraq war resolution and -- as the Big Muddy is rising yet again -- now find themselves tongue-tied or trying to trump a war president by calling for deployment of more troops. Thus does good money follow bad and bad politics get even worse.


History will deal with George W. Bush and the neoconservatives who misled a mighty nation into a flawed war that is draining the finest military in the world, diverting Guard and reserve forces that should be on the front line of homeland defense, shredding international alliances that prevailed in two world wars and the Cold War, accumulating staggering deficits, misdirecting revenue from education to rebuilding Iraqi buildings we've blown up, and weakening America's national security.

But what will history say about an opposition party that stands silent while all this goes on? My generation of Democrats jumped on the hot stove of Vietnam and now, with its members in positions of responsibility, it is afraid of jumping on any political stove. In their leaders, the American people look for strength, determination and self-confidence, but they also look for courage, wisdom, judgment and, in times of moral crisis, the willingness to say: "I was wrong."

To stay silent during such a crisis, and particularly to harbor the thought that the administration's misfortune is the Democrats' fortune, is cowardly. In 2008 I want a leader who is willing now to say: "I made a mistake, and for my mistake I am going to Iraq and accompanying the next planeload of flag-draped coffins back to Dover Air Force Base. And I am going to ask forgiveness for my mistake from every parent who will talk to me."

Further, this leader should say: "I am now going to give a series of speeches across the country documenting how the administration did not tell the American people the truth, why this war is making our country more vulnerable and less secure, how we can drive a wedge between Iraqi insurgents and outside jihadists and leave Iraq for the Iraqis to govern, how we can repair the damage done to our military, what we and our allies can do to dry up the jihadists' swamp, and what dramatic steps we must take to become energy-secure and prevent Gulf Wars III, IV and so on."

At stake is not just the leadership of the Democratic Party and the nation but our nation's honor, our nobility and our principles. Franklin D. Roosevelt established a national community based on social justice. Harry Truman created international networks that repaired the damage of World War II and defeated communism. John F. Kennedy recaptured the ideal of the republic and the sense of civic duty. To expect to enter this pantheon, the next Democratic leader must now undertake all three tasks.

But this cannot be done while the water is rising in the Big Muddy of the Middle East. No Democrat, especially one now silent, should expect election by default. The public trust must be earned, and speaking clearly, candidly and forcefully now about the mess in Iraq is the place to begin.

The real defeatists today are not those protesting the war. The real defeatists are those in power and their silent supporters in the opposition party who are reduced to repeating "Stay the course" even when the course, whatever it now is, is light years away from the one originally undertaken. The truth is we're way off course. We've stumbled into a hornet's nest. We've weakened ourselves at home and in the world. We are less secure today than before this war began.

Who now has the courage to say this?
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Old 08-24-2005, 04:40 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Ahhh yes...the new liberal mantra

Now if it were a sex act...I'd be all into it.....according to Mrs. Springer....


The new liberal mantra could soon be "Impeach the bastards" if things keep swinging the way they have been of late.
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Old 08-24-2005, 05:20 PM   #27
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Right....

Just out of curiousity.....have you found a violation of the constitution that would justify impeachment?
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Old 08-24-2005, 05:23 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Right....

Just out of curiousity.....have you found a violation of the constitution that would justify impeachment?
Willfully building a false case to justify the war in Iraq springs to mind.....is that not a serious crime?
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Old 08-24-2005, 05:25 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by starvinmarvin
Willfully building a false case to justify the war in Iraq springs to mind.....is that not a serious crime?

I believe so.

But it appears the other side has the monopoly on 'facts'.
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Old 08-24-2005, 05:28 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by starvinmarvin


Willfully building a false case to justify the war in Iraq springs to mind.....is that not a serious crime?
So the UN, Germany, France, Russia, Bill Clinton, and the Democrats that wrote letters urging the President to take action against Iraq....

They were all willfully building a flase case too......

I feel like I am in a time warp in FYM......

Do we all want to just ERASE the fact that PRESIDENT CLINTON when he was in the White House believed there were WMD.

GERMANY believed they would have the BOMB by 2006-2007....

That FRANCE never doubted there was WMD., but wanted time,,.


My God, have people forgotten that if Saddam's son inlaw had not ratted him out in the mid 90's he WOULD HAVE HAD THE BOMB?

Nope...


Let's rewrite history....and claim we were deceived...

TIME WARP
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