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Old 06-02-2006, 04:32 PM   #31
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


No, he is finding out about an incident from the press. Something that happens all the time.
An "incident"?

What exactly has to happen over in Iraq before your sense of moral outrage kicks in?
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Old 06-02-2006, 05:08 PM   #32
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Expressing my sense of moral outrage on a U2 forum helps who?
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Old 06-02-2006, 05:31 PM   #33
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Originally posted by anitram
It's high time people started realizing that in a war, nobody gives a shit about the civilians.
Respectfully, have you been in on military planning at any level?
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Old 06-02-2006, 06:06 PM   #34
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No, but I've been a civilian on the other side of the barrel of that gun and I didn't appreciate it much.

Civilians pay the greatest price in any war, any other opinion is naivete. And incidentally, it's always civilians, mostly women and children who never have a choice in the matter either. They didn't choose to go to war, they didn't fight back, they don't stand to benefit from it via profiteering.

Troops chose a life in the military; I didn't choose to get shot at. Which is why my heart is always with the civilians first.
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Old 06-02-2006, 06:18 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
Civilians pay the greatest price in any war, any other opinion is naivete. And incidentally, it's always civilians, mostly women and children who never have a choice in the matter either. They didn't choose to go to war, they didn't fight back, they don't stand to benefit from it via profiteering.


perfectly said.

it's awfully easy to think of war as a perfectly good option for dealing with a situation while sitting 5,000 miles away in your comfortable suburb.
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Old 06-02-2006, 06:32 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Expressing my sense of moral outrage on a U2 forum helps who?
I don't know about you, but when I'm feeling morally outraged I tend to talk about it. That's human nature.

And thanks for telling me that what I post on the Internet is unlikely to make a bit of difference in the world. Gee, here I thought I had this power to type words here in the House of Blue Crack and magically change our foreign policy! (Slaps head against forehead).
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Old 06-02-2006, 07:07 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bono's shades


I don't know about you, but when I'm feeling morally outraged I tend to talk about it. That's human nature.

And thanks for telling me that what I post on the Internet is unlikely to make a bit of difference in the world. Gee, here I thought I had this power to type words here in the House of Blue Crack and magically change our foreign policy! (Slaps head against forehead).
As if we need more judgmental posts here
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Old 06-02-2006, 07:52 PM   #38
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Of all Bush's shortcomings, perhaps the most disheartening is his total lack of curiousity. He knows only what his handlers decide to tell him, which is precious little. I hope that we never again have a leader who has so little regard for knowledge and the wisdom that comes with it.
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Old 06-02-2006, 09:26 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

perfectly said.

it's awfully easy to think of war as a perfectly good option for dealing with a situation while sitting 5,000 miles away in your comfortable suburb.
Right, but when those poor civilians are being slaughtered by a secret police force it's all happy fun time? Polls consistently put Iraqi approval at the removal of Saddam at ~80%, this is in 2006, the situation was fucked for the last 10 years when the people were left to die by the Clinton era policies which failed to achieve any of their objectives (surrendering of WMD & regime change) and inflicted disproportionate suffering on the Iraqi people (UNICEF gives figures of 500,000 children dead because of sanctions and their manipulation by the regime). And for what? Saddam to have raked in billions of dollars of illegal oil money, a regime to become more entrenched? A country brought to utter ruin, the effects of which have prolonged the occupation.

What sorry part of policy does the USA deserve the most blame for? allowing supression of the Shiite uprising after the first war? a decade of crippling sanctions that probably killed over a million civilians? Keeping Hussein boxed in with forces kept in Saudi Arabia (gee now that was the cause to be for what up and coming Muslim group in the 1990's?) or the war to remove Hussein that has over the course of 3 years killed 40,000 civilians (your enemies seem to take care when targeting hospitals, schools and religious shrines). That is about the number that was being bumped off by the regime directly (not from the sanctions) of 30,000 a year. There were no good options in Iraq, we know the shit that has happened post-Invasion and we also know the result of the previous policy - the choices were bad and worse.

The difference between the US and other countries militaries is not that these vile crimes don't happen, it is that when they do the perpetrators will be tried and if guilty punished very harshly.
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Old 06-02-2006, 09:31 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer


The difference between the US and other countries militaries is not that these vile crimes don't happen, it is that when they do the perpetrators will be tried and if guilty punished very harshly.
What a broad statement, please. No other country tries their soldiers?

And yeah, the perpertrators here were sure being tried and punished before Time magazine got damning video.

They lied and buried the story until February.
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Old 06-02-2006, 09:35 PM   #41
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If people are going to say that these things never happen then it is willfull ignorance, if they say that they have to hold their soldiers to a higher standard then trials and exposure come into it. Other countries would be examples like the Russians in Chechnya, I didn't think I would need a list.
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Old 06-02-2006, 09:42 PM   #42
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And is Haditha being investigated because the US military believes in transparency or because they tried to cover it up and everything that's happening now is because they got caught by an independent third party?
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Old 06-02-2006, 09:45 PM   #43
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Are any of the other cases in this tread only investigated because there was a conspiracy?

I do not think that there was an attempted conspiracy from the top down, it will become apparent if the initial investigation was lied to and how the new evidence affected it.
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Old 06-02-2006, 09:51 PM   #44
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Perhaps, someday you will be married

and will have the joy of driving your pregnant wife in labor, to the hospital

and witness her head being blown to pieces
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Old 06-02-2006, 10:00 PM   #45
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Some of the liberal groups are circulating petitions demanding Rumsfeld's resignation. In fact, I signed one of them. Not a chance in hell of this happening, but stand up and be counted.
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