GWB on being president -- no non-Christians need apply!!!

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Irvine511

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GWB in yesterday's Washington Times:

"I fully understand that the job of the president is and must always be protecting the great right of people to worship or not worship as they see fit. That's what distinguishes us from the Taliban. The greatest freedom we have or one of the greatest freedoms is the right to worship the way you see fit. On the other hand, I don't see how you can be president at least from my perspective, how you can be president, without a relationship with the Lord."
 
I try to give him the benefit of the doubt and think that perhaps he's talking about relying on a relationship w/ the Lord for comfort, strength, etc. Obviously being President is a very difficult job

I would never defend an assertion that you have to have a relationship w/ the Lord or be a Christian to be President

Perhaps he didn't articulate exactly what he means, wouldn't be the first time :wink:
 
I think he clarifies his statement later in the interview. MrsSpringsteen is right-I think he is talking about how he relies on God for comfort and strength. He wonders how anyone could do the job without God. That hardly makes him a raving loony.
 
I think he means that an atheist in the United States is unelectable. The public wouldn't stand for it. I'd also hate to see how the opposition would use that against the candidate...
 
nbcrusader said:


what on earth is wrong with GWB giving his opinion on this subject?

I guess the Jesus lightening rod still works....

Beautiful words aren't they ? "in my opinion", "at least from my perspective", etc.

I didn't vote for this guy, but c'mon people he was just expressing his opinion, not writing out a list of required qualifications for a job description.
 
nbcrusader said:


what on earth is wrong with GWB giving his opinion on this subject?

I guess the Jesus lightening rod still works....


notice that Bush is explicitly qualifying his defense of religious freedom (or the freedom to have no religion at all) by saying that the presidency, in his view, should nevertheless be reserved for people with a relationship of a personal nature with "the Lord." he isn't simply saying that he doesn't see how he could have endured the presidency without faith; he is asserting that he cannot see how anyone could be president without a "relationship with the Lord." yes, this might be simply a slip of the tongue. but given how this administration has consciously eroded the distinction between church and state this is worrying. on the separation of church and state, I don't trust him
 
here's the whole article:

President Bush said yesterday that he doesn't "see how you can be president without a relationship with the Lord," but that he is always mindful to protect the right of others to worship or not worship.
Mr. Bush told editors and reporters of The Washington Times yesterday in an interview in the Oval Office that many in the public misunderstand the role of faith in his life and his view of the proper relationship between religion and the government.
"I think people attack me because they are fearful that I will then say that you're not equally as patriotic if you're not a religious person," Mr. Bush said. "I've never said that. I've never acted like that. I think that's just the way it is.







"On the other hand, I think more and more people understand the importance of faith in their life," he said. "America is a remarkable place when it comes to religion and faith. We had people come to our rallies who were there specifically to say, 'I'm here to pray for you, let you know I'm praying for you.' And I was very grateful about that."
Liberals have challenged his faith-based initiative, which allows religious organizations to apply for government funds to administer social services such as drug rehabilitation and food banks.
The president said there is no reason to fear his conspicuous practice of his Methodist faith or his approval of religious expression in the public square.
Mr. Bush said he leans heavily on his religion every day that he is in the Oval Office and cannot imagine any man handling the pressures of the job without leaning on God.
"I fully understand that the job of the president is and must always be protecting the great right of people to worship or not worship as they see fit," Mr. Bush said. "That's what distinguishes us from the Taliban. The greatest freedom we have or one of the greatest freedoms is the right to worship the way you see fit.
"On the other hand, I don't see how you can be president at least from my perspective, how you can be president, without a relationship with the Lord," he said.
Michael Newdow, the California atheist who famously failed to get the words "under God" out of the Pledge of Allegiance, is now attempting to get a D.C. District Court to prevent clergy from participating in Mr. Bush's inauguration.
"I will have my hand on the Bible," Mr. Bush said, expressing a tone of amusement and exasperation that one day, even the 216-year-old centerpiece of the inaugural ceremony might be challenged.
However, Mr. Bush said that unlike many Christians, he does not think that faith is under attack by culture at large and points to the "backlash" against attempts to further secularize the public square as proof.
"The great thing about our country is somebody can stand up and say, 'We should try to take "under God" out of the Pledge of Allegiance,'" Mr. Bush said. "On the other hand, the backlash was pretty darn significant.
"This is a country that is a value-based country," he said. "Whether they voted for you or not, there's a lot of values in this country, for which I'm real proud."
Mr. Bush said he has "still got a rigorous agenda" for his faith-based initiative.
The federal government has funneled "about $1.2 billion" to religious groups so far, the president said, and he hopes to improve on that in the next four years.
"What we are going to do in the second term is to make sure that the grant money is available for faith communities to bid on, to make sure these faith-based offices are staffed and open," Mr. Bush said. "But the key thing is, is that we do have the capacity to allow faith programs to access enormous sums of social service money, which I think is important."
 
I think MrsSpringsteen is right--he says "from my perspective..."

I don't think I could do the job without praying, either.

Everyone here knows that the President and I don't always see eye-to-eye on things, but I think that all he meant is that for him, prayer and faith are essential to doing the job. And that's fine.
 
paxetaurora said:


Everyone here knows that the President and I don't always see eye-to-eye on things, but I think that all he meant is that for him, prayer and faith are essential to doing the job. And that's fine.


i think he is saying that for *any* president, prayer and faith and a personal relationship with "The Lord" -- not God, btw -- are essential.
 
Irvine511 said:



i think he is saying that for *any* president, prayer and faith and a personal relationship with "The Lord" -- not God, btw -- are essential.

Yes, that indeed appears to be the OPINION he clearly stated.
 
yes, it is the opinion, but he is also the president. his words carry weight. what if he were an atheist and had said, "in my opinion, i just don't see how anyone can be president if you believe in something that cannot be rationally proved"? would you object to that?

in my OPINION, as president, he shouldn't be sending signals that some people, because of their irreligion -- or not having a relationship with "the lord" which i take to mean Jesus -- are incapable of representing all the people.
 
Irvine511 said:
yes, it is the opinion, but he is also the president. his words carry weight. what if he were an atheist and had said, "in my opinion, i just don't see how anyone can be president if you believe in something that cannot be rationally proved"? would you object to that?


No. Another beautiful phrase: "consider the source"



Irvine511 said:
[B
in my OPINION, as president, he shouldn't be sending signals that some people, because of their irreligion -- or not having a relationship with "the lord" which i take to mean Jesus -- are incapable of representing all the people. [/B]

Beautiful country, you can express opinions !
 
Irvine511 said:



i don't get it. an atheist is an unreliable source?

(sigh)

Picture Falwell lecturing on homosexuality, would that cause to re-think anything about your life ?

If I hear an atheist talking about God, it really does NOT carry any weight with me.
 
while i don't think that's an apples-to-apples comparison, i do take your point.

i think most atheists have thought a lot about god, and rejected it based on a set of principles. it's hardly likely that Fallwell has given homosexuality the same amount of thought -- except in how to further vilify a minority.





boy, i really need to get back to work. this blue crack is going to get me fired .......
 
I think Bush is *mainly* talking about his personal experience rather than any sort of "requirement" for the presidency. He can't understand how anyone can put up with the stress and anxiety of the job without faith in God. That's fine with me. I don't know how I'd put up with having a touch of autism if I didn't have my own relationship with God, if I couldn't go to mass and get the sacraments and all of that Catholic stuff. This does not mean I'm going to tell another autistic that they're screwed if they don't have this belief, they have their own way of handling their situation. Faith is a highly personal thing and people are different. Many, many people get through life's turmoil with faith, and many do not. It's an honest difference of the nature of one's emotional support system.
 
"I fully understand that the job of the president is and must always be protecting the great right of people to worship or not worship as they see fit. That's what distinguishes us from the Taliban. The greatest freedom we have or one of the greatest freedoms is the right to worship the way you see fit. On the other hand, I don't see how you can be president at least from my perspective, how you can be president, without a relationship with the Lord."

Bush has said a lot of dumb things, but this phrase isn't one of them. Although it may appear to sound stupid at first, it actually makes total sense. He recognizes the greatest freedom we have is to worship as we see fit, and then he simply adds his personal opinion regarding the importance of a relationship with Christ. So what. Last time I checked, freedom of expression was a good thing to. If the president was muslim and said the same thing but inserted Allah, would you be making such a big deal about still?
 
I'm amused by the turn this thread has taken. One would think that, if there's one opinion that people should be able to scrutinize, it's the president's.
 
Good point, but to me it seems like Irvine was calling BS on the quote when actually there's nothing really wrong with it. That's just me — and I'm NOT even a Bush supporter! :wink:
 
Irvine511 said:
what if he were an atheist and had said, "in my opinion, i just don't see how anyone can be president if you believe in something that cannot be rationally proved"? would you object to that?

No, I just wouldn't vote for him.

Sorry, Irvine. I see your point, I just don't think he's saying what you think he's saying.
 
coemgen said:
Good point, but to me it seems like Irvine was calling BS on the quote when actually there's nothing really wrong with it. That's just me — and I'm NOT even a Bush supporter! :wink:

Neither am I, and I also have no problem with his (the President's) comments on this particular matter.
 
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Interesting...but no where in the article is he quoted as saying you have to be a Christian......

I was so excited when I read the title too....I thought there would be evidence. Ahhhh wait, this is FYM:wink:
 
I know, another mistitled thread. My favorite is the one about "nasty Christians who care less about Poverty than they do gay marriage." :wink:
 
Sadly, FYM is losing its luster for accurate debate. Anitram, Klaus, U2Bama, Melon........

Where are you?
 
coemgen said:

Bush has said a lot of dumb things, but this phrase isn't one of them. Although it may appear to sound stupid at first, it actually makes total sense. He recognizes the greatest freedom we have is to worship as we see fit, and then he simply adds his personal opinion regarding the importance of a relationship with Christ. So what. Last time I checked, freedom of expression was a good thing to. If the president was muslim and said the same thing but inserted Allah, would you be making such a big deal about still?


yes, aboslutely. if he said that he believed a requirement for someone to be president was a personal relationship with Allah, i'd absolutely call him out on it.

he also says "the Lord" -- he *is* refering to Jesus, NOT God. big, big difference.

as i said before: he isn't simply saying that he doesn't see how he could have endured the presidency without faith; he is asserting that he cannot see how anyone could be president without a "relationship with the Lord."

btw, this would include the deists who founded our contry.

i think it's lovely that he has a relationship with Jesus to guide him. if he had said just that, it would be an innocuous statement. W went further: he linked the office of the presidency to religious faith. and as president, his words carry weight.
 
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