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View Poll Results: Click the ones you personally believe to be guilty as accused. (multiple selections)
O.J. Simpson 40 95.24%
Kobe Bryant 19 45.24%
Michael Jackson 27 64.29%
Pete Townshend 8 19.05%
Jon-Benet' Ramsey's parents 25 59.52%
Robert Blake 24 57.14%
Phil Spector 22 52.38%
Mike Tyson 30 71.43%
Martha Stewart 25 59.52%
Scott Peterson 30 71.43%
Ray Lewis 11 26.19%
that other basketball player whatshisname 7 16.67%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 06-09-2004, 03:17 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by ThatGuy


Plus I don't see anything that shows the total number of people who have voted, so you can't tell how many people think that OJ is not guilty.
O.J. Simpson 34 15.32%
Total: 222 votes 100%

I didn't look into any of these cases in detail but shouldn't we assume that a person is not guilty when a court says it can't be proven that he/she was guilty?

In dubio pro reo - and i think we should treat the persons that way no matter if they are celebs or not.
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Old 06-09-2004, 03:50 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus


O.J. Simpson 34 15.32%
Total: 222 votes 100%
That's the total number of votes, but since people can vote for more than one person it's not an indicator of the total number of voters.
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Old 06-09-2004, 06:15 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus


O.J. Simpson 34 15.32%
Total: 222 votes 100%

I didn't look into any of these cases in detail but shouldn't we assume that a person is not guilty when a court says it can't be proven that he/she was guilty?

If you did look into these cases you'd understand. With O.J. there are several factors that make most Americans believe is is guilty.

1.There had in recent years been a lot of racial tension, the LA riots, Rodney King riots, accusations of racism in the LAPD. So almost all blacks, especially poor blacks, were very untrusting of the system. OJ's jury was made up not of his peers, other celebrities, but mostly poor blacks, not from posh Brentwood where he lived, but from the worst parts of LA. So right off the bat you had a chance that they were all coming in with the atttitude that OJ was being victimized because he was black. Add to that the fact that the LAPD's key witness was found to have been a user of the 'n' word in the past, and the questions about the planting of evidence, and the jury was even more suspicious. .His defense team (very expensive and he could afford it) played the race card, appealing to the distrust the poor blacks had of the LAPD and it paid off. As a matter of fact, the white lady on the jury admitted later she thought he was guilty and had voted guilty but was pressured heavily by the rest of the jury to change her vote. Race should not free a person just as it should not unfairly convict someone, but I believe if OJ had been white, or poor, he'd have been found guilty.

So it is entirely possible that another jury would have convicted him.

2. And they did! The next year in a civil suit, Nicole Brown Simpson's parents and Ron Goldman's parents won a 'wrongful death' lawsuit when a different jury determined OJ was responsible for their deaths. They were awarded $33 million dollars, but OJ has hardly paid a cent. He even moved to Florida where such things from other states cannot be enforced.

3. Add the factors that Nicole had been abused and he had on several occasions threatened to kill her, there were numerous police reports. He had also made a comment that he would 'slit the throat' of any man seen driving a car he bought Nicole, and Ron Goldman had been seen driving her car.

4. Then there is is sheer arrogance and gloating since the killings as described in Mrs. Springsteen's thread.

5. Though he had vowed to search for the 'real killer' he never did and still hasn't. Neither have the police, and in 10 years not one single drop of other evidence or testimony has come forward. There WAS no other killer.

6. On CNN soon after the trial, they were taking phone calls from people as to what they thought. Of course most were outraged a murderer was freed. One black man laughed and said he did think OJ was guilty but it was only justice since so many whites who killed blacks had been let off by biased juries in the past. But two wrongs doesn't make a right! Nicole and Ron had nothing to do with those other cases and they deserved justice and didn't get it.

7.It is true that a guilty man could get off scott free, just as there have been proven cases of guilty people being convicted and sent to jail and later proven innocent with DNA tests or other info coming forward. What a jury and court decide are not always correct either way. There is reason to doubt them and we have every right to think for ourselves and do just that.

Klaus, as critcal of the US as you always are, don't take up or our criminal justice system, it doesn't always work.


Quote:
In dubio pro reo - and i think we should treat the persons that way no matter if they are celebs or not.
We are treating them the same. The Ramseys and Scott Peterson are not celebrities (and are BTW white) and most of us feel they are guilty too. Naturally more famous people will make a list like this because you hear more about a case when a celebrity is involved because it's bigger news.

Peterson's trial is going on right now, and even if he isn't found guilty I will always believe he is given all the evidence we've heard. The Ramseys were never even brought to trial even though there was a lot of evidence pointing at them. They are rich and they got out of it but I will always believe they did it. Also in their case as well as OJ's there have been no other real leads.
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Old 06-11-2004, 12:47 AM   #34
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I only considered cases where I know the facts:

Guilty: OJ Simpson, Martha Stewart, and the Ramseys

Not Guilty: Michael Jackson, Kobe Bryant, Robert Blake, Phil Spector
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