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Old 05-26-2005, 07:45 AM   #31
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I'm turning into a regular conservative (or at least some of you are making me feel like one by comparison ), but I generally agree with A_Wanderer. We need to investigate reports of abuse and keep with Geneva conventions, but 10 reported (not yet confirmed) compared to a gulag, that's just absurd.

Problems need to be addressed, but making far-out comparisons only alienates people and doesn't do much to help.
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Old 05-26-2005, 07:52 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by VertigoGal
We need to investigate reports of abuse and keep with Geneva conventions, but 10 reported (not yet confirmed) compared to a gulag, that's just absurd.


while i agree that Guantanamo -- or, "GitMo" for all you fox news insiders -- isn't even close to Soviet standards, is it the structure of the thing or the content of the thing that makes a gulag?
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Old 05-26-2005, 07:52 AM   #33
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Can you flush a Koran down the toilet? I would imagine that those books are larger than shit. In fact, Conan O'Brien (or was it David Letterman?) tried to flush Paris Hilton's new book down the toilet, and not even a plunger could do it.

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Old 05-26-2005, 02:23 PM   #34
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I think that if flushing the Koran down a toilet gets answers then it should be done, if burning the Koran gets answers then it should be done. The fear of God is a great weakness that is there to be used.
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Old 05-26-2005, 02:46 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I think that if flushing the Koran down a toilet gets answers then it should be done, if burning the Koran gets answers then it should be done. The fear of God is a great weakness that is there to be used.


doesn't this make the US soldier less safe?

since i know you respect him, i'll let Sully argue the case, particularly in response to this morning's WaPo article that i posted earlier:

"The U.S. has deliberately and consciously had a policy of using religious faith as a lever in interrogation of terror suspects. Is this "torture"? It is certainly part of psychological abuse. It is also beyond stupid. Do you really think that throwing the Koran around is likely to prompt an Islamist fanatic to tell you what he knows? Did anyone ask what the broader consequences might be of such techniques - in polarizing Muslim opinion against the U.S., in providing every left-wing hack rhetorical weapons against the United States, in handing the Islamists a propaganda victory that makes all our effort to spread democracy in that region that much harder? Still, we can be grateful for Scott McClellan for one thing: he dared the press to provide substantiation for the Newsweek claim. We've now got it. Will administration defenders finally concede we have a problem?"
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Old 05-26-2005, 02:51 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I think that if flushing the Koran down a toilet gets answers then it should be done, if burning the Koran gets answers then it should be done. The fear of God is a great weakness that is there to be used.
But then what are you telling the rest of the Muslim world? Oh we're just kidding, we really do respect your religion...

That's like burning a cross or a swastika in someone's front yard in order to draw out a criminal but telling the rest of the world you aren't racists or anti-semitic.
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Old 05-26-2005, 03:03 PM   #37
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Have we asked ourselves why do we tip toe around Islam so much? I mean really.


For point of reference - People "disrespect" Christianity as part of daily habit - just listen for the use of the word "Jesus" and my guess it is not always in prayer.
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Old 05-26-2005, 03:08 PM   #38
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Quote:
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Have we asked ourselves why do we tip toe around Islam so much? I mean really.


For point of reference - People "disrespect" Christianity as part of daily habit - just listen for the use of the word "Jesus" and my guess it is not always in prayer.
We're talking about the government compared to an individual. This country is made up of all religions, therefore this government must find a way to represent all these peoples of different religions so disrespecting one is disrespecting a part of your whole. I don't see it as tip toeing at all.
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Old 05-26-2005, 03:19 PM   #39
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I can understand using "emotional torture" as an interrogation technique, and don't generally see a problem with breaking down prisoners as long as it's not physical abuse. But I wonder how effective this technique has really been, and can't help but agree that it may do more harm than good in the end.
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Old 05-26-2005, 03:26 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Have we asked ourselves why do we tip toe around Islam so much? I mean really.


For point of reference - People "disrespect" Christianity as part of daily habit - just listen for the use of the word "Jesus" and my guess it is not always in prayer.


we tip-toe around Islam because we have no choice -- it doesn't matter whether or not i think people are insane to riot because a book was flushed down the toilet.

they did riot, and we have to deal with this mentality whether fair or not.

we battle the enemy we have, not the enemy that should be.
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Old 05-26-2005, 07:15 PM   #41
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Do it or don't either way you will be accused of disrespecting Islam and Muslims will get pissed off at you.
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Old 05-26-2005, 07:23 PM   #42
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Confused as to how 'not doing it' will still have most Muslims accusing you of disrespect.
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Old 05-26-2005, 07:24 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
That's like burning a cross or a swastika in someone's front yard in order to draw out a criminal but telling the rest of the world you aren't racists or anti-semitic.
No it isn't, it is using the attributes of the detainee in an interrogation to get information. I do not think that religion is out of bounds in this, if Fundamentalist Christian terrorists could be unsettled by burning a Bible in front of them then that should be done too.
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Old 05-26-2005, 07:26 PM   #44
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i also think it's important to remember that this isn't just about the Koran and a toilet; it's about 30ish people who have died while in American custody in prisons; it's about Abu Ghraib; it's about the invasion of an Arab country; it's about decades of propping up horribly corrupt dictatorships across the Arab world; it's about the myriad complaints the Arab/Muslim world has, and whether justified or not, this is the reality we have to deal with.
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Old 05-26-2005, 07:26 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Confused as to how 'not doing it' will still have most Muslims accusing you of disrespect.
Because the accusations will be made without evidence. It is standard procedure for AQ operatives to claim torture if they are released, this is not saying that all claims are false and shouldnt be investigated but it is saying that the accusations will be believed widely and they will be made no matter what.
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