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Old 04-24-2004, 10:26 AM   #76
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this is the most frustrating misconception, in my view. i cant speak for anyone else in here or anywhere who has shared my view, but it is not the wanting of guilty people released. it is knowing and finding out for sure, through trial etc that they are guilty.

if they're all given trials and every single one of them is guilty of something, let them pay their dues. it is simply wrong to not know or find out first.
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Old 04-24-2004, 11:29 AM   #77
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


You need to make up your mind. Are they prisoners of war or not? You can't debate the argument both ways.

Don't kid yourself the war on terrorism just like the war on drugs will never be over.
I believe I did make up my mind, but I guess I didn't make it clear enough for you.

They ARE prisoners of war, because we are at war. But this is not a type of war that is covered under Genega, therefore those rules do not apply. Again... what the world community needs to do is get together and make a new set of rules... either as an addendum to Geneva, or as en entirely different set of rules all together, regarding warriors who do not serve any one nation. there is no legal precedent for this... so let's get together and make the rules. until that point, keep them locked away.
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Old 04-24-2004, 12:25 PM   #78
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase


I believe I did make up my mind, but I guess I didn't make it clear enough for you.

They ARE prisoners of war, because we are at war. But this is not a type of war that is covered under Genega, therefore those rules do not apply. Again... what the world community needs to do is get together and make a new set of rules... either as an addendum to Geneva, or as en entirely different set of rules all together, regarding warriors who do not serve any one nation. there is no legal precedent for this... so let's get together and make the rules. until that point, keep them locked away.
Right!

For all you who keep going trial, trial, trial, I still say, HOW?? You cannot have a traditional trial with people like this in this situation. Who would the witnesses be? It would not work Headache is right, that's what I've always said, the old rules do not apply here, we have to make new ones!
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Old 04-24-2004, 02:04 PM   #79
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i dont understand why people want them released.. they are dangerous people - and the whole world is safer if they are inside jails.
I don't want them to be released i'd prefer that they are treated a way we treat criminals. I don't see any reason why there are hundreds of people where we don't know if they are guilty or not and they don't have any rights.
Some of them are released after almost 2 years but no court - nothing - nada.
I want justice, not a superpowercountry who treats people like non-human beengs.
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Old 04-24-2004, 02:32 PM   #80
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Originally posted by BluberryPoptart
Headache is right, that's what I've always said, the old rules do not apply here, we have to make new ones!
umm, I don't think Bush and his administration are the ones who get to decide when the rules of the Geneva Convention are not applicable

neither is it a decision I get to make, nor the queen of Sweden nor Nelson Mandela
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Old 04-24-2004, 03:13 PM   #81
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I reeeeaaaally doubt these people are being held for no good reason. I don't care what you all think of Bush or the Gov't they just don't go around detaining people for nothing. I would guess the real story behind this is they ARE dangerous terrorists, and we know it, but there is no way to PROVE it because they will not rat each other out and there is nothing on paper. But they are too dangerous to be released. Again, you who care so much for them should just be glad they are alive and have hope and didn't 'disappear' as they would in many places at many times. They can't play by the rules when the game has changed. I'm sure they know what they're doing and it will all come out someday and you'll see. There is more to this than we know.


What is the differece between blind trust and ignorace?




Quote:
Senators Call for Probe of Army Chaplain Spy Case
From Reuters

April 24, 2004

WASHINGTON — Two Democratic members of the Senate Armed Services Committee called Friday for the Pentagon to conduct an investigation into its treatment of a Muslim Army chaplain who was suspected of spying, detained for months and then quietly released.

Sens. Carl Levin of Michigan, senior Democrat on the committee, and Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts said the manner in which Capt. James Joseph Yee was detained and prosecuted "raises serious questions about the fair and effective administration of military justice."

They urged Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld in a letter "to give this issue your immediate attention."

The military initially held Yee, 36, on suspicion of espionage at the Guantanamo Bay detention center in Cuba, where he was a Muslim chaplain ministering to terrorism suspects.

He was arrested in September and placed in solitary confinement for 76 days.

When the military finally brought charges, Yee was accused of "mishandling classified documents," not espionage. Then, earlier this year, that charge and all other criminal counts against Yee were dropped and he was released.

In a noncriminal hearing in March, Yee was found guilty on lesser charges of adultery and possessing pornography and received a written reprimand from the Army.

The senators said the Pentagon should investigate the Army's handling of the case, "including whether the extensive pre-trial confinement and the charges against the chaplain were supported by the evidence."

They said the probe should look into "how and why information in the case was released to the press," noting that media reports had cited anonymous government sources saying Yee was suspected of espionage, aiding the enemy and treason.
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Old 04-24-2004, 03:22 PM   #82
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Originally posted by Klaus


I don't want them to be released i'd prefer that they are treated a way we treat criminals. I don't see any reason why there are hundreds of people where we don't know if they are guilty or not and they don't have any rights.
Some of them are released after almost 2 years but no court - nothing - nada.
I want justice, not a superpowercountry who treats people like non-human beengs.
I don't recall prisoners in World War II being treated like criminals and being given the opportunity to have a trial and be set free. This is a war, and the obvious security needs far outweigh these other concerns.
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Old 04-24-2004, 03:25 PM   #83
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I don't recall prisoners in World War II being treated like criminals and being given the opportunity to have a trial and be set free. This is a war, and the obvious security needs far outweigh these other concerns.

So like WWII you want Geneva Convention applied to these prisoners?
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Old 04-24-2004, 03:33 PM   #84
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Originally posted by deep



So like WWII you want Geneva Convention applied to these prisoners?
Unless it compromises security given the unique threat this terrorism poses, yes. The Terrorist have been treated very well given the circumstances, far better than most prisoners around the world, despite what others claim.
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Old 04-24-2004, 04:56 PM   #85
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Ok to all of you who keep saying "this is war" and "they are prisoners of war" then what's keeping them from just locking up the whole Middle East until they decide on the rules? Obviously they didn't catch most of these people with gun in hand aiming at us, or waving some flag. So why not just lock up the whole damn place until we figure these things out cause honestly they really don't have to have a reason to be locked up, that's what all of you are saying. They don't need one f##king reason.

If they did have a reason to lock these people up then come forth and prove your case and let the innocent free. How hard is this to understand. You don't throw out all logic because the environment of this so called "war" changes.
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Old 04-24-2004, 06:09 PM   #86
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well i'm still going to believe that we wouldn't lock these people up for no reason... that there must be a reason why they are there, and why they were taken into custody... maybe i'm being naive, or maybe your hatred for this administration has overwellmed your thought. i dunno... i've said all i have to say on the issue.
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Old 04-24-2004, 06:23 PM   #87
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What is the differece between blind trust and ignorace?
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Old 04-24-2004, 06:49 PM   #88
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
well i'm still going to believe that we wouldn't lock these people up for no reason... that there must be a reason why they are there, and why they were taken into custody... maybe i'm being naive, or maybe your hatred for this administration has overwellmed your thought. i dunno... i've said all i have to say on the issue.
Yes it must always be hatred when one questions the very questionable actions of this government such as locking up children and holding people for up to two years without one single charge. Yes I just must be a person of blind hate to think this is questionable activity.
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Old 04-24-2004, 06:54 PM   #89
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1. maybe i'm being naive
Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
well i'm still going to believe that we wouldn't lock these people up for no reason... that there must be a reason why they are there, and why they were taken into custody... maybe i'm being naive

or

2. maybe your hatred for this administration has overwellmed your thought
Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
maybe your hatred for this administration has overwellmed your thought. i dunno... i've said all i have to say on the issue.

sorry headache,

since you made it an "either or" question

number 1 is most correct.
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Old 04-24-2004, 06:59 PM   #90
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The irony of imprisoning people indefinitely without trail while we 'bring freedom' to their country... breathtaking.
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