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Old 04-22-2004, 06:33 PM   #16
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"Legality" is not something I would put in quotes.

And it is self-serving to believe that you, or your country, do not have to play by the same rules as everyone else does because, well, you don't feel like following them at this particular moment. Deep is right--if these were Americans having been held in, say, Afghanistan for two years with no right to due process, no family visits, etc., we would have sent in troops after maybe a week. Not only do we expect to get away with this, but we expect to get away with it with no reprisals.

If these prisoners had been found guilty of crimes or conspiracies to commit crimes, I would have no problem with imprisoning them. But, if I am not mistaken, none hasbeen formally charged or brought before a tribunal to determine his status. This is a human rights disaster, a black eye on the United States, and a situation we need to remedy to set ourselves forth as arbiters of justice, peace, and fairness--which, if we believe our President, is a big part of why we went into Iraq in the first place, right?
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Old 04-22-2004, 06:53 PM   #17
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Originally posted by paxetaurora
And it is self-serving to believe that you, or your country, do not have to play by the same rules as everyone else does because, well, you don't feel like following them at this particular moment.
What are the rules that "everyone else" plays by? Does this include the rules the Taliban played by?
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Old 04-22-2004, 06:59 PM   #18
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Let me rephrase that, then: the rules all civilized countries play by and the rules we expect all countries to play by, and the rules we had a hand in writing.

Two wrongs don't make a right, do they?
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Old 04-22-2004, 07:14 PM   #19
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Originally posted by paxetaurora
Let me rephrase that, then: the rules all civilized countries play by and the rules we expect all countries to play by, and the rules we had a hand in writing.

Two wrongs don't make a right, do they?
If there are civilized countries and there are uncivilized countries, how can we expect the uncivilized countries to play by the rules we extend to our citizens?

And should our obligation be extended to the uncivilized, especially if lives could be saved in the process?
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Old 04-22-2004, 07:32 PM   #20
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If there are civilized countries and there are uncivilized countries, how can we expect the uncivilized countries to play by the rules we extend to our citizens?
Well apparently Bush believes you become "uncivilized" like them.

How is it outrageous for the Vietnamese to keep Americans indefinitely but not for Americans to keep foreigners indefinitely without due process? Talk about hypocrisy.
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Old 04-22-2004, 07:38 PM   #21
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The difference between POWs and enemy combatants.
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Old 04-22-2004, 07:42 PM   #22
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The difference between POWs and enemy combatants.
So as long as you invent a new title for the people you imprison, it's okay to detain them as long as you please without charge?
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Old 04-22-2004, 08:15 PM   #23
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Apparently, yes!



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Old 04-22-2004, 08:17 PM   #24
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And yes, our obligation should be extended to the uncivilized. I believe in leading by example, not by stooping to the tactics used by our enemies.
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Old 04-22-2004, 09:27 PM   #25
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Let's see.....last I knew Al-Qaeda has not surrendered nor have they approached us for a cease fire or an end to the "war" with the US.

Out of ignorance, I ask has there ever been a war in history, where combatants were captured and set free? For that matter, has there ever been a war where soldiers, enemy soldiers, were put on trial. And, no I am not talking about the top ranking soldiers.

As for the legality of it.....I have said many times....we are dealing with a war with a terrorist organization. There is no legal precident for this to my knowledge. We are not dealing with a nation. Thus, rather than wait to determine the legality of things, I would prefer my governement to act proactively.

The Supreme Court will do its job and sort it out as it has done since our country was founded. It takes time, but we will soon learn what the boundaries are.
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Old 04-23-2004, 07:28 AM   #26
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


What are the rules that "everyone else" plays by? Does this include the rules the Taliban played by?
So the thought/implication/suspicion/accusation/supposed guilt of these individuals is enough for some to calmly sit here, comfortable with their incarceration under such conditions?

America should be ashamed.

Isn't it ironic that you wage wars to defend the very notion of freedom and rights for all and then you send out this message. America's distinction between the goose and the gander has become a little too clear.
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Old 04-23-2004, 08:18 AM   #27
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Are we at war? is there a prior war where people are tried or freed during the war? I am still looking for some precidence but I do not believe that the enemy has ever been released during a war.
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Old 04-23-2004, 08:19 AM   #28
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Isn't it ironic that you wage wars to defend the very notion of freedom and rights for all and then you send out this message. America's distinction between the goose and the gander has become a little too clear.
So were captured nazi's just released in the middle of WWII. Were they held in prisons? Or were they just released?
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Old 04-23-2004, 08:34 AM   #29
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Good God Dread. Where to start!

I wasn't calling this specifically a war, but making the point that America wages wars (in general) on the very things your country holds dear. This war on terrorism. Is it a war or not? Sometimes it is called one so the shoe fits now, surely?

Enemies? What enemies? Does your administration have a damned clue who they have locked up in there? Apart from suspicion, is there any proof (as found through the usual means ie a court of law) that these people are guilty?

You want precedence? Sounds like a defence argument. You know, like in a court of law.

Forget everything else for a moment Dread. Look only at the detainees. You think this is ok?
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Old 04-23-2004, 08:42 AM   #30
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Angie,

I support it 100%. I have in thread after thread. It is a war, and there is no other way for me to look at it. When there are clear rules for fighting a war a terror organization maybe we would not have this debate.

These "detainees" are prisoners of war. The only time that I have been upset is at the "children" that were held. To my knowledge they have been released.

The rest, be they Talliban or Al-Qaeda are being held until it has been defined by the courts if this is legal. Unfortunately, since there were not guidlines for a terror war, I do indeed support the governments taking action.

Others here may not view it as a war, however, shall I list the number of attacks committed by Al-Qaeda over the last ten years. It is indeed a war in my mind. They are indeed POW's until the Supreme Court declares otherwise.
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