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Old 09-09-2004, 05:01 AM   #1
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Greatest enemy of mankind is free will?

I was just watching over Angel season 4, anyway the world is at peace and everything is great except the cost is there is no real free will, everyone is happily subservant to a higher power. Now the question that I raise is this.

Given the history of mankind is our greatest enemy our free will, could everybody lead happier lives if they did not have control or make choices?

As wrong as it is to our sensibilities a strong logical argument can be made against free will, you could end war, violence and starvation - but would the cost be too high?
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Old 09-09-2004, 06:12 AM   #2
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Free will is a gift. It defines humanity, it's the best and worst of humanity.

Yes, the cost would be far too high.
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Old 09-09-2004, 06:53 AM   #3
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You'd end war, starvation and violence, but you'd also cause war, starvation and violence.
There is no removing free will. Hypothetically you can win this debate, but it is never practical with humans.
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Old 09-09-2004, 06:53 AM   #4
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Hmm....interesting. I may have to answer this after I reread 1984, which I would recommend to all.
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Old 09-09-2004, 07:15 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
You'd end war, starvation and violence, but you'd also cause war, starvation and violence.

How would that cause these things? This is a hypothetical...so answer hypothetically.
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Old 09-09-2004, 07:16 AM   #6
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No, free will isn't our enemy. It's what makes us human, it's too basically a part of human nature to fight. Sure we all make wrong choices. But often the concept of "wrong" is based on opinion or something else besides "fact". I know "relativism" gets under some people's skins, and I'm not a Milquetoast in the morality department, either. But I'm hesitant to tell someone they are wrong when they are basically just different. Being different and respecting differences is what life is all about, IMHO. If we can't do that it's a sad day for humanity. These days there is so much intolerance. This scares me. We don't like Politician X, so we have to demonize him.
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Old 09-09-2004, 07:27 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by starsgoblue



How would that cause these things? This is a hypothetical...so answer hypothetically.
Take away my free will and I will fight you. Violently if I have to. If I try and remove someone else's, being the free will removing type, I might also add on oppression, inequality, substandard living levels, poverty, starvation etc. Why stop at free will? Taking free will from one, will add on to another's. There has to be a power scale. Someone loses, if someone is to gain.
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Old 09-09-2004, 07:30 AM   #8
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Quote:
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How would that cause these things? This is a hypothetical...so answer hypothetically.
Look up the word, slave.
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Old 09-09-2004, 07:35 AM   #9
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removing free will, will, as a result, leave our most fundamental gift of reason futile and useless. I personally don't believe that God should be the supreme moral governor, as our ability to reason is ignored as we must conform the moral rules outlined by God. Hence, I believe that humans must use their reason to make their own decisions, after all, didn't God give us this gift of reason in the first place? Why should we waste it then by obeying his so called rules? In that case, it is up to us to not abuse free will and reason accordingly.

GO VERTIGO GO!!
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Old 09-09-2004, 09:51 AM   #10
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What kind of power would we be giving free will up to? Because if you believe in an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent God in the manner of the Judeo-Christian tradition, we were given free will as a gift from that same God.

St. Anselm called God "that than which nothing greater can be thought." This "nothing greater" has already given us free will. I sincerely doubt S/he would take it away, and thus, since I couldn't possibly give up my free will to something less than God, I would not entertain thoughts of giving it up.
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Old 09-09-2004, 10:40 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Look up the word, slave.
You guys aren't understanding my point....I was asking as if we had never been born with free will, not that it was something that one could take from another....that we all had just not been born with it period. Now do you understand what I'm asking?
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Old 09-09-2004, 12:03 PM   #12
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You have to flesh out the scenario more. So if we're born without free will, how do decisions get made? Somebody else makes them for us? I presume God then programs/ordains/determines it all. If that scenario, ie. complete determinism, then God being a perfect being, all his/her actions will be good and, sure, you should have a fairly unchaotic, though kind of mindless, existence. Also, the question doesn't really matter in that scenario because nobody would have the knowledge of the distinction between having free will and not having it. We wouldn't have the free will to think of what it would be like to have free will.
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Old 09-09-2004, 12:08 PM   #13
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If we were born without free will, how would we know?
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Old 09-09-2004, 12:53 PM   #14
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mankind exists because of free will

if you remove free will we would be a different species

a less interesting one also
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Old 09-09-2004, 01:44 PM   #15
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a religious view:

Free will must be something verry important to god, he have it to adam and eve also he knew exactly what they would do in the future with their free will...
...and still god thought it's worth it
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