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Old 07-09-2002, 10:20 PM   #16
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I read Gore’s novel ‘Burr’ about 25 years ago. I remember I enjoyed it a lot. Very well written. I started ‘Lincoln’ but did not finish it. I have 4 or 5 of his books. Right now I am trying to finish Rushdie’s Satanic Verses.

I watched a program he made call “The Imperial President”. He started with Washington, and the founders, how they did not want a too powerful Executive. He then detailed how succeeding Presidents have taken more and more powers. Powers not stipulated in the constitution. It never got a replay. I wanted to tape it. I guess Presidents appoint the FCC chair. Stations like their licenses renewed.

He was not a big fan of Clinton.

And the liberals, of course, are the slowest and the stupidest, because they do not understand their interests. The right wing are the bad guys, but they know what they want -- everybody else's money. And they know they don't like blacks and they don't like minorities. And they like to screw everyone along the way.

But once you know what you want, you are in a stronger position than those who can only say, "Oh no, you mustn't do that." That we must have free speech. Free speech for what? To agree with The New York Times?


I think he is right. Conservatives are more focused, cohesive, get their goal accomplished, keep their eyes on the prize. Group think.

He is more popular with the Liberals, because they want to be tolerant and open minded.

Dozens of writers, reporters tried to meet with McVeigh. McVeigh rejected them. He contacted Vidal. I guess he thought Vidal would tell his story straight? He gave Vidal a ticket to his execution. I believe Vidal did not go. He thought it was a manipulation.

You don’t have to agree with him, but he is a brilliant writer, essayist, and commentator.
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Old 07-09-2002, 10:22 PM   #17
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I don't necessarily buy into the polls myself, and I have never been polled. I will say that everyone I talk to outside of this place seems to back up these "polls" though.

And if you remember the USAToday polls pre- the presidental election, they pretty much called it. Well they didn't predict the final outcome, but they did have it a very tight race in the last month or two.
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Old 07-09-2002, 10:22 PM   #18
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Over the years, I have been polled several times.
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Old 07-10-2002, 10:50 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by z edge
I don't necessarily buy into the polls myself, and I have never been polled. I will say that everyone I talk to outside of this place seems to back up these "polls" though.

And of course, I have exactly the opposite experience--my experience in talking to people (outside of this place, as you say) is that George W's approval ratings couldn't possibly be accurate. Just depends on who you hang out with. My main question about polling is what exactly are the questions.
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Old 07-10-2002, 07:09 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by joyfulgirl


And of course, I have exactly the opposite experience--my experience in talking to people (outside of this place, as you say) is that George W's approval ratings couldn't possibly be accurate. Just depends on who you hang out with. My main question about polling is what exactly are the questions.
Well now there's a real suprise

Let me guess, you live in one of the blue states?

Ironically, i lived in Atlanta during the Monica-gate scandals in 1998. Atlanta is the most diverse place I have ever lived, and there are a lot of blacks and gays as well as Southeners, Europeans and whoever else you could imagine.

During this time President Clinton had a very high approval rating, which I believed to be true.

Believing that impeaching President Clinton because of what developed from a sex scandal was not a legitamite reasoning, i often defended him in sorts on this issue. Yet despite all of his high approval ratings, most everyone i talked to wanted him to resign. In fact, they would usually go on to say he was unfit to lead and believed that the sex scandals were the only crimes anyone could pin down on him, that he was guilty of much more.

Not necessarily my beliefs, but i wanted to point out an example from my past that mirrors yours (minus the scandals)

Still dosen't clear up the issues of polls though
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Old 07-10-2002, 07:51 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by z edge


Let me guess, you live in one of the blue states?

Guess again. I live in a state just north of you that nearly always votes Republican but in 2000 we were a swing state. I voted for an honorable third party candidate and Gore carried the state.

However, the city I live in is so liberal (I prefer the term 'progressive') that you, my friend, would think you had died and gone straight to hell.

Sorry for the digression, folks.
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Old 07-10-2002, 10:35 PM   #22
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Originally posted by joyfulgirl


Guess again. I live in a state just north of you that nearly always votes Republican but in 2000 we were a swing state. I voted for an honorable third party candidate and Gore carried the state.
Kansas? Don't give me anymore reasons to make fun of you

Quote:
However, the city I live in is so liberal (I prefer the term 'progressive') that you, my friend, would think you had died and gone straight to hell.

Well, I don't really know exactly how to say this. But Oklahoma is so conservative it is even a bit frightening to someone like me. Well not necessarily frightening, but rather the conservatives here seem satisfied with the status quo and I think we need more balance here. I bet even Danospano would agree with me here

I think for our upcoming governor election, I lean towards Dem. Vince Orza or Ind. Gary Richardson over the wonderful Rep. Steve Largent.

*I better go hide from my brothers for saying this
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Old 07-11-2002, 10:03 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep

You don’t have to agree with him, but he is a brilliant writer, essayist, and commentator.
Perhaps, but this interview isn't one of his finest.
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Old 07-11-2002, 10:21 AM   #24
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no paranoia there

Quote:
[The government] plays off [Americans'] relative innocence, or ignorance to be more precise. This is probably why geography has not really been taught since World War II -- to keep people in the dark as to where we are blowing things up
This was my favorite line. I wonder if we're not being taught good math so that we can't count how many countries we have been blowing up since World War II as well.
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Old 07-11-2002, 10:27 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by z edge


Kansas? Don't give me anymore reasons to make fun of you



Well, I don't really know exactly how to say this. But Oklahoma is so conservative it is even a bit frightening to someone like me. Well not necessarily frightening, but rather the conservatives here seem satisfied with the status quo and I think we need more balance here. I bet even Danospano would agree with me here

I think for our upcoming governor election, I lean towards Dem. Vince Orza or Ind. Gary Richardson over the wonderful Rep. Steve Largent.

*I better go hide from my brothers for saying this

uhh....i thought you lived in texas...
never mind
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Old 07-11-2002, 10:55 AM   #26
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Great article Dano, I think reflects the thinking of people outside the USA, and I even think inside it.

Bubba, of course this man is not gona be loved by everyone, anyone that is this critic, and try to see things in the best unbiassed way, (IMO), obviously will find detractors, I don't think that this rest value to his comments and work.
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Old 07-11-2002, 11:23 AM   #27
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Re: Gore Vidal talks about terrorism and the American Empire

Quote:
Originally posted by Danospano


I hope you don't believe those figures. Don't you know how the polls are rigged? It's simple. After 9/11 the country was really shocked and terrified. [Bush] does a little war dance and talks about evil axis and all the countries he's going to go after. And how long it is all going to take, he says with a happy smile, because it means billions and trillions for the Pentagon and for his oil friends. And it means curtailing our liberties, so this is all very thrilling for him. He's right out there reacting, bombing Afghanistan. Well, he might as well have been bombing Denmark. Denmark had nothing to do with 9/11. And neither did Afghanistan, at least the Afghanis didn't.
Gore is exactly right. I wish more people in our society had the balls to call a spade a spade. Gore's take on our society and this administration is only "radical" to those who choose to ignore the possibility that what the mainstream media shoves down our throat is the truth. The media today has no guts to ask the tough questions or to follow up on promising leads. If they would, then Gore's thoughts on 9/11 and this administration wouldn't appear so "radical."

We as Americans need to take back our country from the egalitarian community running things now. Sign me up for the next Constitutional Convention...I'm ready! And thanks to Gore Vidal for championing the concerns of the voiceless in our country.
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Old 07-11-2002, 03:05 PM   #28
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At what point, in the paragraph you quoted, is Vidal even remotely right?

First, there's the insinuation that Bush isn't actually doing anything when it's becoming more and more clear that Saddam Hussein's days are quite numbered.

Then, he implies that Bush is happy in what he's doing because it's A) profiting the Pentagon and "his oil friends" and B) eroding our liberties. (B) is wrong to begin with, but even if (A) is true, it is deeply, DEEPLY cynical to suggest that Bush is putting American soldiers in harm's way just to help his friends' business interests. It's a vicious, slanderous comment that requires a hell of a lot more proof than ANYONE has provided.

After all that, he then goes on to suggest that our actions in Afghanistan were completely unfounded.

(First, which is it? Is Bush a do-nothing President, or is he doing too much? Gore Vidal seems incapable of deciding, instead taking both sides to slam Bush.)

Even if his hair-splitting in mentioning "at least the Afghanis" is true, we're fairly certain of the following fact: the terrorists responsible for 9/11 were following orders of a terrorist group (al Queda) with a large number of training facilities in Afghanistan, facilities that were protected by the thugs running the country (the Taliban).

If Vidal doesn't think Afghanistan is relevant, then WHICH country? He does not say. If he admits that the Taliban-protected al Queda within Afghanistan were responsible, how else do we get to them? (Would bombing a different country somehow help?) Again, he does not say.

Gore Vidal is not speaking for the voiceless. He is speaking for the brainless.
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Old 07-11-2002, 03:16 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Achtung Bubba

First, there's the insinuation that Bush isn't actually doing anything when it's becoming more and more clear that Saddam Hussein's days are quite numbered.


When was the first time I hear a Bush say this.....
1991 ???
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Old 07-11-2002, 04:05 PM   #30
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When was the first time I hear a Bush say this.....
1991 ???
So he's going to finish the job his father didn't.

(I've noticed that many who now bemoan the fact that Hussein is still in power didn't even want Desert Storm to occur - and they certainly didn't want us to go into Bagdad.)

What I wonder is, what's your point? The current president is facing the same enemy his father faced. SO?
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