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Old 06-19-2012, 10:52 PM   #796
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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
And since I'm grumpy, where's the "let's talk issues" police that flag me for talking about Obama's radical associations when the subject turns to Mitt's car elevators?
Because, as MrsS alluded to, we're actually focusing on things related to the candidates' actions now. Romney talks about how he sympathizes with everyday people, and if there's any situation that might indicate otherwise, we're going to discuss that. If it turns out we are mistaken, which seems to be the case here, feel free to correct us and we will acknowledge the mistake (I for one hadn't heard this story in the news at all until just this moment).

If Obama actually IS involved with some "radical" person or group currently, and his involvement would have an actual impact on his presidency, then, believe it or not, we here would discuss such a thing. But then again, your idea of what constitutes "radical" is vastly different from most people's, so it's hard to know how accurate the accusations are. Who was it a while back that made the insinuation that Obama (may) have read socialist or communist literature when he was younger, therefore, GASP, he's clearly a socialist or communist, or at least has sympathies with such political beliefs.

Or, he could just be reading random stuff, along with a zillion other things. I've been scanning through an interesting book on my breaks at work lately about the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, but that sure as hell doesn't mean I'm plotting to blow up any federal buildings anytime soon.

Plus, the whole "radical" thing is just beyond played out and is basically inflammatory speech at this point. We're tired of it. If you find something legitimate on the issue, fine, we can definitely look at it and talk about it, but until then, it'd be really great if we could let that argument go.

Anywho, to you, MrsSpringsteen-let it be known I for sure definitely appreciate having you around here. And to you as well, INDY-I hope whatever is causing your grumpy mood changes for the better soon.
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:36 PM   #797
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And Obama would be the Joker. . .

aha, got there ahead of you INDY!
Holy fast & furious Batman.
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:53 PM   #798
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Marco Rubio Not Being Vetted to Be Mitt Romney’s Running Mate - ABC News

Rubio is a loser, if Romney picks him, the contest is over.
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:56 PM   #799
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It says Yahoo news, do you not see that? I'm not clairvoyant, so I can't tell if yahoo stole it from MSNBC. I can't be bothered to read the MSNBC link-I have a colossal headache and shoulder pain and frankly I don't give a rat's butt. Some people are into grumpy gotcha back and forth here, not me. This used to be an enjoyable place for me, it isn't anymore and hasn't been for quite a while.

Mitt's care elevator is an issue for ME, because it's perfectly symbolic for ME of who he is.. that he's never had to struggle financially for a single thing. I know, and I don't have to reference any source, the type of politician he is because he was the governor of MA- not Indiana. So dare I say that I do know more than you do about that. I know his m o and I'm not impressed. Ditto for the job he did as governor. Did I think he was the least offensive candidate? Yes, but a smaller piece of horse crap in a big steaming pile of horse crap is still a piece of horse crap. He never made my life better then and he's not going to do it now. If I thought he could make one iota of difference in this country as President, I might actually be tempted to vote for him-even though I disagree with most of (if not all, if I actually cared enough to research all of them) his positions on issues and think he's pretty much a hypocritical fake opportunist.

I don't have a car, an elevator, or an elevator for my car. The biggest splurge I've made recently was a nice pair of sandals on the clearance rack at DSW for 17 dollars after three coupons. I have to enjoy the simple pleasures in life, and honestly most days I struggle to find a reason to want to get up the next day. Everyone's got problems and many people have it worse off than I do. I don't begrudge Mitt one cent of his wealth or expect him to give me any of it, believe it or not. Good for him. I question how he made it at Bain, what went on there. He's one of many who made lots o' money off of people losing their jobs. But he's a master job creator. And I do know that he can't relate to someone like me at all, despite all his two bit embarrassingly laughable attempts to be "real" and "regular". That I know instinctively, without CNN MSNBC or Fox.

So that's pretty much it. You are free to start a 51 page thread about MSNBC, no one's stopping you. I'll look up some news stories about them and reference the sources. I don't watch MSNBC at all, I read and walk and watch my tv shows and sports.
Rereading my post I might have given the impression I was upset with you when I said "this crap." I was not and I do appreciate that you give links for your articles. I did see that this was sourced from yahoo but note that the reporter did not mention where she got her info?

Both sides do this but have you noticed "the machine" that gets cranked up where a "story" is disseminated instantly through "friendly" sources in all media (electronic, TV, talk radio, blogs, web sites, etc)? I think it's a disturbing trend, especially when being first with the story trumps fact-checking and a manufactured lie is passed on as news. And you're very right, who the hell has time to check all this yourself?

So, please continue to give us topics for discussion and maybe we'll find something to agree on down the road. Maybe.
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Old 06-20-2012, 12:10 AM   #800
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Marco Rubio Not Being Vetted to Be Mitt Romney’s Running Mate - ABC News

Rubio is a loser, if Romney picks him, the contest is over.
Romney says Rubio is being vetted for VP

Quote:
"Marco Rubio is being thoroughly vetted as part of our process," Romney said during a campaign stop in Holland, Mich.

"There was a story that originated today apparently at ABC based upon reports of supposedly outside unnamed advisers of mine. I can't imagine who such people are," Romney said. "But I can tell you this: They know nothing about the vice presidential selection or evaluation process. There are only two people in this country who know who are being vetted and who are not, and that's Beth Myers and myself.

"The story was entirely false," he said. "Marco Rubio is being thoroughly vetted as part of our process."
I like Rubio.
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Old 06-20-2012, 12:57 AM   #801
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i hope Mitt ordered toast with that scramble.

no women on the list either. Our Sarah has set back GOP women for a generation -- sorry ladies! and please stop talking about vaginas in Michigan!
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Old 06-20-2012, 01:37 AM   #802
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sorry ladies! and please stop talking about vaginas in Michigan!
That still seriously floors me. I keep thinking that HAS to be a joke.
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Old 06-21-2012, 09:49 PM   #803
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Daniels trades GOP politics for academics at Purdue

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Now that he's been named the next president of Purdue University, Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels says he's going to swear off partisan politics and spend the next few months learning the world of academia.

The Republican, who decided against a White House bid, was introduced today as Purdue's 12th president after a vote of its board of trustees. Daniels will take over the post in January, when his term ends as governor.


Purdue... seriously?
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Old 06-21-2012, 10:07 PM   #804
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It's hard to blame him for wanting out of politics for awhile
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Old 06-21-2012, 10:13 PM   #805
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once again Indy

proof that you did pick a quality person, sounds like this is one politician with a bit of class (no pun)
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Old 06-21-2012, 10:46 PM   #806
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once again Indy

proof that you did pick a quality person, sounds like this is one politician with a bit of class (no pun)
Thanks but still a bitter pill when one lives in Bloomington.
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Old 06-22-2012, 06:31 AM   #807
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Why oh why would he go to the dark side? Higher education is liberal!!!
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Old 06-22-2012, 07:31 PM   #808
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If Obama actually IS involved with some "radical" person or group currently, and his involvement would have an actual impact on his presidency, then, believe it or not, we here would discuss such a thing.
I'm not sure if I'd agree with that, TBH. We have had posts from posters here admitting that part of the reason they advocate for Obama is that they fancy him. Maybe they were joke posts, maybe not. All I know is I saw posts, maybe not here but on other forums, circa 2003-2005, saying Bush is going to save us, Bush is going to defend us from the terrorists, Bush is such a strong cowboy, and don't he look swell in his cowboy hat and riding out on his ranch. And it didn't seem like they were joking, certainly not in the febrile atmosphere that existed in the years of the Great War on Terror (remember that?)

America. much as I love it (from a distance) has a big problem, IMO, with investing too much in its presidents, in hagiographing these figures, when they are really just men, with feet of clay, like all men.

The current mood on FYM, if you ask me, is so dismissive of anything vaguely suggestive of conservative opinion, so ready to accuse any philosophy slightly right of centre of being borderline fascist, so ready to convict anti-Obama people of racism and all sorts of prejudices, that it's vaguely disturbing. There's a sense that people sitting on the fence might almost be afraid to voice an opinion lest they be accused of thought crime! That's just a personal perspective, btw - I can't claim to speak for others on the right wing here.

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But then again, your idea of what constitutes "radical" is vastly different from most people's, so it's hard to know how accurate the accusations are. Who was it a while back that made the insinuation that Obama (may) have read socialist or communist literature when he was younger, therefore, GASP, he's clearly a socialist or communist, or at least has sympathies with such political beliefs.
I agree that it's no big deal that Obama has read communist literature, if that's the case. Anyone of above average intellect and learning will have done so, at some stage, one hopes - all the great economists that I am aware of are well-versed in Marxist economic literature - mainly in order to critique it, granted.

The evidence for condemning Obama of being a closet commie on the basis of books he may or may not have read is, I'd grant you, pretty suspect. If one wants to accuse Obama of socialism, one is better off looking at his record - and that record, from where I'm sitting, is profoundly pro-statist and not at all friendly to the business owner class. He has displayed little or no evidence of any level of common feeling or sympathy with entrepreneurs and small business owners - you know, the people that actually will eventually create the jobs that will get this godamn economy back on its feet again.
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Old 06-22-2012, 11:43 PM   #809
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I'm not sure if I'd agree with that, TBH. We have had posts from posters here admitting that part of the reason they advocate for Obama is that they fancy him. Maybe they were joke posts, maybe not. All I know is I saw posts, maybe not here but on other forums, circa 2003-2005, saying Bush is going to save us, Bush is going to defend us from the terrorists, Bush is such a strong cowboy, and don't he look swell in his cowboy hat and riding out on his ranch. And it didn't seem like they were joking, certainly not in the febrile atmosphere that existed in the years of the Great War on Terror (remember that?)

America. much as I love it (from a distance) has a big problem, IMO, with investing too much in its presidents, in hagiographing these figures, when they are really just men, with feet of clay, like all men.
On this much we are (perhaps shockingly) in complete agreement.
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Old 06-23-2012, 12:16 AM   #810
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I'm not sure if I'd agree with that, TBH. We have had posts from posters here admitting that part of the reason they advocate for Obama is that they fancy him. Maybe they were joke posts, maybe not. All I know is I saw posts, maybe not here but on other forums, circa 2003-2005, saying Bush is going to save us, Bush is going to defend us from the terrorists, Bush is such a strong cowboy, and don't he look swell in his cowboy hat and riding out on his ranch. And it didn't seem like they were joking, certainly not in the febrile atmosphere that existed in the years of the Great War on Terror (remember that?)

America. much as I love it (from a distance) has a big problem, IMO, with investing too much in its presidents, in hagiographing these figures, when they are really just men, with feet of clay, like all men.
I fully agree we have a tendency to see presidents as gods sometimes. The right goes nuts over Reagan to this day, the left won't stop obsessing over the Kennedys or Clinton.

However, on here, at least, the "fancying Obama" stuff I think is mainly lighthearted joking commentary. This place gets awfully heated sometimes, so a bit of light fun fluffy talk every now and again is welcome, I think. And besides that, you can find someone attractive and still not always agree with their actions. I'm pretty sure nobody here is voting for Obama simply because they find him cute.

The Bush comments, I don't know how much of it was joking and how much was serious, but I do know people legitimately thought that way. But people actually think that way about the president they voted for. I've said it many times before, but the left is guilty of it, too-there were many that thought Obama would come in and fix everything, and he hasn't, at least, not to their satisfaction. When we talk about criticism of a president, we often focus on the opposing party's comments, but we also need to remember that the supporting party can have its own complaints, too. And some complaints are nonsensical and based in merely nasty rhetoric or kneejerk hatred of the other side, but some complaints also do have value, and those should be heard.

Personally, if you want to see the left here bring up some criticism of Obama, I think it'd be great if we started talking about things like his drone program, or this latest "fast & furious" situation, or his continued ties to Wall Street, or not shutting down Guantanamo Bay, or things of that sort. You could definitely find Obama supporters who would have some problems with those scenarios, and those are legitimate issues worth discussing. I'd be happy to participate in those conversations.

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The current mood on FYM, if you ask me, is so dismissive of anything vaguely suggestive of conservative opinion, so ready to accuse any philosophy slightly right of centre of being borderline fascist, so ready to convict anti-Obama people of racism and all sorts of prejudices, that it's vaguely disturbing. There's a sense that people sitting on the fence might almost be afraid to voice an opinion lest they be accused of thought crime! That's just a personal perspective, btw - I can't claim to speak for others on the right wing here.
I know it seems like the right is being ganged up on here because there aren't a lot of you on here to begin with. But while some people may overdramatize one's viewpoint, I think it's fair to say we don't have a problem with conservative thought in and of itself and will listen to actual, thought out comments.

But the way some conservatives here present their opinion, intentionally or not, comes off very wrong to us. Your comment, for instance, in our recent immigration discussion, insinuating my viewpoint on the topic was simply because of liberal middle-class guilt and fear that I'd "offend a brown person somewhere". That's simplistic, blatantly untrue, and the whole "brown person" remark, um...wow. Couldn't have found a better way to phrase that? Really? The whole thing a while back about people on welfare scamming off the system. Nobody denied that that happens, but some here also pointed out instances where that was not true and why such programs exist to begin with. But it seemed to go in one ear and out the other.

People on this board may not be racist, but the right seemed to be totally oblivious to the racism that occurred within the Tea Party, or with those who supported the Tea Party (or the GOP in general). They seemed to forget about the signs with Obama as a voodoo witch doctor, or the "haha, watermelons on the White House lawn, teehee, funny!" e-mail an actual government official sent out, the signs where Obama was called racial epithets, the stupid Hitler moustaches. The whole moronic birther thing has its roots in racist beliefs. But most right-wingers here seemed to deny that was as common as it was, or wanted us to actually show proof it happened.

And then the anti-gay sentiment among some right-wingers here throughout the years, well, that's never going to get support, because there's nothing about it worth supporting to begin with.

I agree the left has been guilty of overreaction and oversimplification of one's viewpoint on here many times, and I agree that the right's voice does sometimes get drowned out amongst the voices here. But the way the right vocalizes their beliefs sometimes, some of it they kinda brought on themselves.

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I agree that it's no big deal that Obama has read communist literature, if that's the case. Anyone of above average intellect and learning will have done so, at some stage, one hopes - all the great economists that I am aware of are well-versed in Marxist economic literature - mainly in order to critique it, granted.

The evidence for condemning Obama of being a closet commie on the basis of books he may or may not have read is, I'd grant you, pretty suspect. If one wants to accuse Obama of socialism, one is better off looking at his record - and that record, from where I'm sitting, is profoundly pro-statist and not at all friendly to the business owner class. He has displayed little or no evidence of any level of common feeling or sympathy with entrepreneurs and small business owners - you know, the people that actually will eventually create the jobs that will get this godamn economy back on its feet again.
Agreed on the whole thing regarding what he reads. And I agree that he hasn't done as much as he should to help small businesses and such. There are people still struggling job-wise in this country, and more could be done, should be done to help them.

But I would point to his continued ties to Wall Street and corporate interests as the reason why that is, and that doesn't strike me as socialist, that strikes me as very much capitalist. He hasn't gone after the super rich and corporations as much as he should, and that's a big part of why we're having the economic problems we're having. Corporations have way, WAY more power now than they should be having, and the super rich are whining because, oh, my god, they might have to pay a bit more in taxes and they can't get their 10th home or yacht or something, the horror! We're tired of the rich people complaining, and think more needs to be done to deal with them.
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