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Old 04-15-2012, 02:02 AM   #631
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
Does "Obam Bucks" seem to you to be a reasonable, sane, polemic-free way to discuss this issue?
Just as sane as "Bush tax-cuts for the rich" or "War on Women."

Boy, you dropped that "cut defense more" logic pretty quickly.
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Old 04-15-2012, 03:43 AM   #632
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M_Angel, im very sorry about your dad, and God Bless you all for doing everything you did / and could during such terrible times. I have absolutely no problem with you or anyone like you receiving assistance or aid given your situation, an honest to goodness sincere need for the programs that were put into place if i have ever heard of one. Obviously there are many other people out there with situations similar to yours...these are prime examples of why these programs exist.
Thank you . Glad we're in agreement on that aspect of it all. And there are people even worse off than my family-I can't imagine what it's like for them.

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Personally i have had to draw unemployment once myself, when the company i worked for lost its contract with GM back in 2001, and closed its doors and laid off all 150+ workers. I was on the unemployment for a couple of months in fact, while vigorously looking for work in the meantime, and finally got a job around 911 as the benefits were about to dry up. I get that people need the assistance, as did i, and im all for these programs helping those in need.
I'm glad you were able to get some help during that time, and I'm sorry you had to go through that as well. That really sucks. I'm honestly surprised sometimes that when that many people get laid off at once like that, there aren't more protests. Not to say that'd necessarily solve anything one way or another, but it would be a logical reaction.

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As a veteran, im for helping anyone who truly *needs* it. That said, thinking back to that video posted by Indy500 and myself, those people in the video didn't seemed all too interested in finding a job....they just wanted the "Obama bucks". I think there is a difference. I dont know how you tell the difference between who is for real and who is a bullshit artist with an entitlement mentality....but that is what needs to be fixed imho. One guy in the video made a reference to his ancestors being slaves...as if that's why he was entitled to his "Obama bucks". Well guess what, my ancestors were native americans, but you don't see me dressing up in feathers and running around looking for handouts because i don't want to work.
I've said before, honestly, after witnessing my parents having to go through tons of paperwork just to prove everything was legit, I'm amazed anyone CAN manage to get around the rules and scam off the government like that. Maybe that stuff varies from state to state, maybe some places aren't as rigid as others.

But yes, you're absolutely right, I have a particular scorn reserved for people who scam. It certainly happens and should be dealt with seriously. They're stealing help from those who truly need it, and making people look suspiciously at anyone who dares ask for such aid as a result. It's not fair that the majority of people who genuinely need help have to prove they need it because of a few assholes out there. How to fix that, though, I'm not sure. There's the endless paperwork I mentioned, but again, that provides frustration, that red tape costs money in and of itself, and when someone's genuinely sick or needs to pay their rent or food by the end of the week, they don't exactly have much time to wait for all that stuff to be certified and approved and whatnot.

And of course, one could argue that no matter what we do, people will always find ways to scam the system anyway. Which is a depressing thought. Maybe we need tougher punishments or something. I dunno. Anyone else have any particular novel suggestions on that topic?

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Im also for govt stepping back a bit and letting free enterprise and the markets work a bit too. At some point this has to happen if we ever want to get above 8.2% unemployment or whatever this current figure is.
If there's anything those in the private sector, the free enterprise folks, can do to help fix the situation, yeah, please, by all means, let's take their solutions onboard. It really sucks that people think we should pit one option against the other. Free enterprise has its good points, so does government help. Why people in this country can't seem to find a proper middle ground that allows both sides to help people out when needed, I don't understand.

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But please dont think i have an "(R)" next to my name or that i want to bomb Tehran just because im outraged when my tax dollars go to people i dont feel are worthy of govt assistance. Serving in the military often means getting paid very little to put your life on the line even if you dont necessarily believe in what you are fighting for. If anything, being a veteran and having had to rely on unemployment compensation gives me the unique perspective that i dont ever want to have to rely on any of that shit again.
I don't blame you for that. And you raise a good point that even though veterans get government benefits, we've heard too many unfortunate stories over the years of those benefits being small at best, and not always as helpful as they should be (it's appalling the stories I've heard sometimes about how we've treated those who've risked their lives to help our country out throughout history).

And as for the Tehran thing, that's just something that popped into my head when I saw Irvine's post. I apologize if I implied something about you in that response that I didn't intend, it was a general comment and not targeted at anyone specifically.

I also apologize again if I came off snippy in my response to you earlier, too . I do think these stories from both sides of the aisle are worth sharing, we can get evidence for both arguments easily here. Again, I'm certainly not saying the government is a savior and will fix everything. Of course they won't. Lord knows they have no shortage of problems, and they definitely need to change how they do things, too. And with the corruption that runs rampant, I certainly understand everyone being wary of them helping out.

But the institution itself isn't necessarily the problem, it's the people we put in to run it that are. But that leads to a whole other topic altogther .

It's just a mess all around, and no government or private sector problems will get fixed if everyone's clinging to their side and refusing to talk to the other or listen to what they have to say.

And on a final note, thank you for your service to our country. I appreciate it.
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Old 04-15-2012, 11:13 AM   #633
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Just as sane as "Bush tax-cuts for the rich" or "War on Women."

Boy, you dropped that "cut defense more" logic pretty quickly.


I wasn't able to read the charts on my phone last night.

If you'd like to wade into STING territory and think that 1960 is an entirely appropriate year to compare to the present day, you're more than welcome. Or you could realize with the rest of the adults in the room that the USSR is gone, we are not at the very height of the Cold War, and that %of GDP as a proper assessment of need.
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Old 04-15-2012, 01:05 PM   #634
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I wasn't able to read the charts on my phone last night.

If you'd like to wade into STING territory and think that 1960 is an entirely appropriate year to compare to the present day, you're more than welcome. Or you could realize with the rest of the adults in the room that the USSR is gone, we are not at the very height of the Cold War, and that %of GDP as a proper assessment of need.
If there were any adults in the room we wouldn't have a debt crisis to begin with.
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Old 04-15-2012, 01:21 PM   #635
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True, the man child with daddy issues who previously occuppied the White House was enabled by a Republican majority in both houses to start two wars, pass the largest tax cuts for the wealthy in history, pass the largest unfounded prescription drug entitlement in history, and has now essentially earned himself the title of "worst president in all our lifetimes."

Now, the adults are cleaning up the mess, and if the UK is anything to go by, mindless austerity is not the way to go.
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Old 04-15-2012, 02:15 PM   #636
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I also apologize again if I came off snippy in my response to you earlier, too .

I do think these stories from both sides of the aisle are worth sharing, we can get evidence for both arguments easily here. Again, I'm certainly not saying the government is a savior and will fix everything. Of course they won't. Lord knows they have no shortage of problems, and they definitely need to change how they do things, too. And with the corruption that runs rampant, I certainly understand everyone being wary of them helping out.


And on a final note, thank you for your service to our country. I appreciate it.
No worries, thank you for your kind comments

You are correct, both sides need to figure out how to listen to each other and work together and solve these problems together.

That hasn't happened in a long time...and often when the elected officials act ugly and throw tantrums you see it trickle down to the people who elect them. You see it in everything from Iraq to Obamacare to Terry Schiavo to Trayvon Martin. One side says "so what, he shot the kid in self defense" while the other side screams "he's innocent" and before you know it there's black panthers and the KKK marching in the streets. How long till we have a race war....in 2012? Really?

Sometimes i think the Democrats and the Republican parties should just be done away with. Kill the parties (figuratively) and start anew. But then what?

I dont think the tea party was the answer, way too many hateful undertones and south park moments with these folks. But they did get the conversation going, at least, ill give them that.

Anyway, cheers to you and happy sunday
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Old 04-15-2012, 04:28 PM   #637
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Mittens:

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“I wanted to increase the work requirement,” said Romney. “I said, for instance, that even if you have a child 2 years of age, you need to go to work. And people said, ‘Well that’s heartless.’ And I said, ‘No, no, I’m willing to spend more giving day care to allow those parents to go back to work. It’ll cost the state more providing that daycare, but I want the individuals to have the dignity of work.”
But the important thing is that we stay outraged about Hilary Rosen.
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Old 04-15-2012, 05:16 PM   #638
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Well, but those were welfare moms he was talking about. They aren't in stable relationships with fathers drawing decent paychecks, so they don't actually deserve to be credited with "working."
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Old 04-15-2012, 06:09 PM   #639
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Well, but those were welfare moms he was talking about. They aren't in stable relationships with fathers drawing decent paychecks, so they don't actually deserve to be credited with "working."


likely black, too, which is the real subtext of what's going on.

what the right is doing is -- yes, dog whistles again -- working over white working class anxieties and traditional racial resentments.

Jesse Helms "Hands" ad - YouTube

it's been going on for a long time. the great freak out now is that there's a biracial Hawaiian black man in the white house
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:10 PM   #640
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So being a stay at home Mom is work only if you're wealthy? I think what Hilary Rosen said was wrong and indefensible, but so is that kind of hypocritical attitude. I hope the media will give this as much attention as they gave to the Rosen thing. Typical Romney.
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Old 04-16-2012, 05:39 PM   #641
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Gallup poll: Romney, Obama statistically tied in 2012 matchup | The Ticket - Yahoo! News

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A new Gallup poll finds Mitt Romney and President Barack Obama statistically tied among registered voters heading into November's general election.

According to Gallup, 47 percent of voters polled are backing Romney, compared to 45 percent who prefer Obama. That's well within the poll's margin of error, which is plus or minus 3 percent.

While both men are doing well within their respective parties, the most notable finding came among self-described independents, a swing voting bloc that could very well determine the outcome of this fall's election. According to Gallup, Romney leads Obama among indie voters by 6 points, 45 percent to 39 percent.

The survey is Gallup's first daily tracking poll of the general election.
Uh-oh, better hope there's another financial crisis on the hor i zon or Barry could be in trouble.
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:08 PM   #642
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polls will start to matter after the Olympics. i think everyone thinks this will be closer than 2008 where Obama ran a near-flawless campaign for the ages and metaphorically freed us all from the hideousness of the Bush years.

this one is going to be far more depressing, and far more tethered to reality.

i'd expect a Romney bump because he just "won" the GOP primary. the election will be about a choice between the two, and the comparison shopping begins right about now.
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Old 04-17-2012, 06:49 PM   #643
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The right to bear arms comes from our creator, not our government,” Gingrich said. The NRA “has been too timid” in promoting its agenda beyond American borders. The Bill of Rights was not written only for Americans, he said. “It is a universal document.”

“A Gingrich presidency will submit to the UN a treaty that extends the right to bear arms as a human right to every person on the planet.” Every world citizen, he said, “deserves the right to defend themselves from those who exploit, imprison, or kill them.” For his latest big idea, Gingrich earned a standing ovation from the crowd of roughly 5,000.
Jesus wants us all to have an AK-47. Giddy up!!
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Old 04-17-2012, 07:08 PM   #644
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Sounds awfully Libertarian of Newt.

That is of course, unless he's serious about god giving his children guns.
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Old 04-17-2012, 07:39 PM   #645
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Sounds awfully stupid.
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