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Old 02-01-2012, 09:40 PM   #796
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Old 02-01-2012, 09:42 PM   #797
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that'll be damaging for him.
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Old 02-01-2012, 09:42 PM   #798
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Originally Posted by Mrs. Garrison View Post
but im sure they have a lot more drive and ambition than the average poor person does, because they were somehow able to succeed.
Drive and ambition are only part of the makeup, though. Luck, who you know, and other factors of that sort can factor in, too.

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Not to make light of the poor persons' situation.....by any means at all....
Well, unfortunately, by saying things like the above about drive and ambition, that implies that poor people just don't work hard enough. And I just look at my parents and know that's not at all true. Certainly some fall into that trap, but many don't.

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but i believe the financially successful people in the world will generally tell you they are the way they are because of hard work, desire, ambition, and more hard work. Also maybe they understand markets, business, networking, and are accomplished at getting things done.
Some of them, yes. But others, like the Trumps of the world, have done a lot of shady crap to get where they are, too, and that's where the problem starts. Add in the fact that they don't know when to stop when they get rich, there doesn't seem to be a wall where enough is more than enough, and that just makes it worse.

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Originally Posted by Mrs. Garrison View Post
Im not a rich guy, im a hard working middle class person who might wish i were one of the wealthy. I live in a decent home, have good insurance, and drive a couple of nice cars.
See, and from my perspective, you're already doing better than my family. We have one car, which is older and beat up and has a driver's side handle that is busted and that we've had to put money into fixing up (and we got it for a few hundred dollars from a friend of my sister's, because that's all we could afford).

We're living in the top floor of someone else's house, in a little apartment, which we only found after having to stay at my sister's very tiny house (that can fit two people fine, but four's a lot) because it took forever to find anyplace in town within our family's price range, and we finally found this one because my family knew the family who owned it. And we make too much for public housing.

My mom's got decent insurance from her job. Not great, but decent. I on the other hand have none at all.

And I still consider us well ahead of where we've been in the past-living in motels, trailer park, sleeping in our car once, stuff like that. It is a definite upgrade and I have a roof over my head and can eat at night and such, and my family aren't big spenders, so we get by all right.

But it's still not even close to being considered proper "middle class" existence. And so when I hear things like what Mitt said, it bothers me immensely.

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When i go places sometimes people will approach me in the parking lot and ask me for money. I give it to them when i have it. On some occasions they will then ask me to take them somewhere, in which i decline. Im not sure what happened to these poor souls to put them in the predicament that they are in, but there is only so much i can do. I won't judge them but i have my own responsibilities that have to come first, as harsh as that may sound. We have to help ourselves first, then we can try and be a Jesus.
I agree that you do what you can. One person giving money away won't solve every problem, and there's a ton of other factors involved, too. This problem won't fix itself overnight, and I'm certainly not naive enough to expect our government to come save me and my family at the drop of a hat. We're putting in as much effort as we can, too.

But I don't agree with that last line-I think it's possible to try and do both at the same time.

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For 3 years we have had a President who has tried to get things done, with some success, but with just as many failures. I want him to succeed...but if we are still having this same conversation in 9 months then why should we give him another shot? Because we agree with him on social issues? Even though he hasn't really succeeded on turning things around....no. Sometimes you have to put aside your personal grievances (for instance, gay marriage) in exchange what is better for the whole (economy). I realize the GOP controlled Congress is the very definition of obstructionist, and are going to block everything the president tries to push through. If i could, i would fire everyone of them. However we are stuck with 3 more years of those assholes. And if we re-elect Obama then its possible were going to have 4 more years of not-getting-shit-done.

As a result things will probably stay the same. Or, it could get worse, higher unemployment, wrecked housing markets, etc. This President has done some really good things, like saving the auto industry, keeping us from a Depression, Killing Osama Bin Laden, just to name a few. He's also failed on several things...creating new jobs, fixing the housing mess, no balanced budget, record national debt...etc. I want to give him the chance but he's going to have to make the better argument.
I do agree with this. Obama is going to have to get tougher. If he has an idea that he knows will indeed benefit this country, and someone wants to try and block it, he should be more forceful and say, "No. This is a good idea. You have no legitimate reasons why it should not go ahead. So I'm going to put it out there/implement it. If the American people don't like it, they are the ones I ultimately will have to answer to (and if the American people do like it, then the opposer will have to answer to us)." And he, or people who work for him, will need to do a much better job of explaining to the public why this idea or that he puts out is a good one and how exactly it will benefit everybody (and the media will need to help in that regard, too. I know some of the policy talk may not be "sexy" or "controversial" enough for headlines, but if it's good policy that helps us, we need to know about it. Every last detail of it).

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Well i guess i just went on a rant. And off topic. Im sorry
It's okay . I may be getting a bit heated here, too, so I need to remember to keep my cool as well. When an issue touches people personally, it's tough to not let one's emotions get in the way of everything.

I will say now I swear any anger I feel is not at all a personal attack on anyone here. Just general frustration. At both sides. Please, do not get me wrong, people, the Democrats have their own set of problems, too. I'm not arguing that at all. Matter of fact, I saw an interview with Mark Foley earlier tonight where he talked about how some Democrats were noted to say, in his presence, "Oh, right, we have to cater to them ("them" being the gay community), because that's what the Democrats want.", despite the fact that these particular Democrats were anti-gay rights. Foley said, "I'd much rather someone tell me to my face they hated me than pretend to like me and support me only to whisper about me behind my back." And I fully agree with that. That story really bothered me.

And now I'm rambling. *Shuts up and sits down and lets someone else talk*
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Old 02-01-2012, 10:07 PM   #799
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Quote:
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Again with the wealthy...whats wrong with being wealthy?
Not one person in here said there was anything wrong with wealth. I have to say you're coming off a little out of touch yourself...
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Old 02-01-2012, 10:11 PM   #800
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Angela, I'm so happy to have you back around here.

Really wonderful post, I think that your experience is really common these days and it's the nitty gritty of it that just doesn't get told. It's that sort of struggle that is a good juxtaposition to Mitt Romney's "I didn't make much last year" when he made $370K. Yes, to him it's not much but to almost everyone else, that is a small fortune if made annually. For some, it's a complete life changer.

I have lived through interesting times in my life - going from a dirt poor and homeless refugee (the clothes on my back really were the only things I had) whose family moved around a lot and relied on social assistance until we could get ourselves situated properly, to a pretty ordinary middle class existence in a middle class neighbourhood, and a slightly lower-middle class high school. Now I am probably what you would consider to be upper middle class - I make 6 figures and so does my partner. We live comfortably, we don't really think about money, we travel several times a year. He's the love of my life and I'd be the happiest woman with or without our financial comforts but I'd also be naive if I didn't think that they made it easier for us.

Am I ambitious? Sure. Do I work hard? I actually think that I work way too hard, often to an unhealthy point. Am I capable? Well, they haven't fired me yet so I suppose so. But you know what, I look around at people who work with me and there are many, MANY who didn't work a quarter as hard as I did. They went to private boarding schools for $60K/year, they got into every college they applied to, they graduated from law school with no debt since they lived off trust funds or their parents paid, they had interviews at every top firm because their father knew the right people, when they got engaged, their parents bought them $1-million condos or houses and followed that up with lavish weddings. When I started working I'd go to Costco to buy my pantyhose in bulk...6 pairs for $15 or whatever it was. They'd pay $18 for one pair of Calvin Klein's. Nevermind our other clothes. The point is that I killed myself working and studying to get to where I was, had a pile of student debt and I feel like even today I have to work 3x as hard as they do because I just don't have the same safety net. Our world is not the meritocracy that people think it is. And the very wealthy have immense advantages that the rest of us don't have, from the moment that they are born. It's a huge mistake to attribute it to simply hard work and ambition - I long ago realized that's something that the middle class tells itself to keep the dream alive.

Having said all that, I can't comprehend how anyone who "made it" wouldn't feel an overwhelming desire to pull other people up with them. Regardless of the difficult things that happened in my life, I feel like I am an extremely fortunate person to have lived this life. I also feel a tremendous amount of responsibility to help those who were like me. You want to increase my taxes by a couple of percentage points and spend it on public education or infrastructure? You know what, go ahead. I'll still live very comfortably, I'll still spend $ and buy things, and I won't be any less interested in starting my own business than I am now. And I am not your 1% by any means.

There are people who are really struggling and hurting in this economy. They are not me. It would be a moral failing for me to demand a lower tax rate when the 95% below me are barely keeping afloat.

I actually find most of the things said by this GOP bunch to be appalling. I am disappointed in Obama, but to let these people run the show? No thanks.
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Old 02-01-2012, 10:47 PM   #801
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Yeah, I just feel the kinds of lives people like myself and my family, and others like ourselves, have lived don't get talked about nearly enough. And usually when they do, we have the "Oh, that's so sad, we should do something" token concern.

Like I said earlier, it's not even that I don't think a lot of people who are well off don't care. I think many do. I don't think Romney's a horrible, evil person who would spit on poor people if he saw them in the street or whatever. I just don't think they get it, and I don't think they fully appreciate sometimes how lucky they are.

I like your story, I think it's pretty inspiring and hopeful . I want to continue to improve my life, too. I'm not expecting or planning on being super rich. All I really want out of life is to be able to not be in debt. A job that I can at least have some guarantee I'll be in for a good while. To go to the doctor/dentist when I need to and be able to pay for it. I want to be able to live in a stable home, where I'm not moving around so much, that is affordable enough for me (and I don't need anything fancy. A modest little home's enough for me, I could buy a little house here in the Midwest for a reasonable price and be happy). I want it so that if I have kids someday, they will not have to worry about where their next meal will come from. I want to feel comfortable enough to be able to pay my bills, and for school, and know that I still have enough left over for other necessities/emergencies or the occasional fun day (and for me, my idea of a splurge is going to a book/music store and spending some money. And perhaps a couple big trips to somewhere I've always wanted to go/do something I've always wanted to do). Help out family and friends, or be able to properly pay them back for any help they've given me as well. Simple stuff like that. I'm really not asking for a ton out of life, I don't think what I am asking for is unreasonable. And I think the same can be said about most others in my shoes.

Thanks for the compliment, too, by the way . It's nice to have someone else here know what I'm trying to say.

Edited to add: Of course Trump would endorse Gingrich. I did say at one point that the two would get on quite well, so it's no surprise to me.

(Now THERE'S the example of rich fat cats that I would consider worthy of serious anger, 'cause I do think they genuinely don't care)
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:22 PM   #802
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:27 PM   #803
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i read this. it's the most misleading headline ever. it's just showing where Obama's approval rating is and isn't above 50%. nothing to do with head-to-head matchups.
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:32 PM   #804
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I think he wants in on that moon project. First hotel and casino in space.

So between Newt and Cain and Trump, how many women is that? I can't count that high.

Seriously, this won't affect much. Mitt still wins Nevada and eventually New York, probably the only two states Trump has even a modicum of political influence. Might help Newt bring in some cash, though.
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:52 PM   #805
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I think he wants in on that moon project. First hotel and casino in space.

So between Newt and Cain and Trump, how many women is that? I can't count that high.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:27 AM   #806
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
i read this. it's the most misleading headline ever. it's just showing where Obama's approval rating is and isn't above 50%. nothing to do with head-to-head matchups.

reread
it.
get
to
know
mitt.



xxox

<>
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Old 02-02-2012, 08:55 AM   #807
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Originally Posted by anitram View Post

Really wonderful post, I think that your experience is really common these days and it's the nitty gritty of it that just doesn't get told. It's that sort of struggle that is a good juxtaposition to Mitt Romney's "I didn't make much last year" when he made $370K. Yes, to him it's not much but to almost everyone else, that is a small fortune if made annually. For some, it's a complete life changer.
Yes it's all a matter of perspective, and your entire post shows that you have held onto that perspective.

To me that is a fortune, not even a small fortune. I'll never see it, but in case anyone thinks otherwise I don't begrudge Mitt Romney that one bit. Or anyone else. Don't think he has to share it with me either.

And no, this country is not a meritocracy.

Getting back to the facts about what Mitt said and the safety net. He has said over and over again that he's going to cut taxes and not raise them and that he's going to balance the budget. And not cut defense. So how is he going to do all of that without any cuts to this safety net? Tax increases for the wealthy? Don't think so, and I had to take a second to laugh there.

More and more the middle class is becoming poor, and one paycheck away from crisis poverty. There was just a news article about that recently. So Mitt can talk all he wants about a safety net for the poor, one that is increasingly needed for the middle class. But how on earth is he not going to cut it? Even Obama has had to cut some of the "safety net", including heating assistance. Add on top of it Mitt repealing "Obama care" and you have even more middle class people in poverty. So it all just doesn't add up, sorry. Even aside from the tone deaf nature of his statements.
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:43 AM   #808
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reread
it.
get
to
know
mitt.



xxox

<>



Quote:
Gallup released their annual state-by-state presidential approval numbers yesterday, and the results should have 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue very worried. If President Obama carries only those states where he had a net positive approval rating in 2011 (e.g. Michigan where he is up 48 percent to 44 percent), Obama would lose the 2012 election to the Republican nominee 323 electoral votes to 215.

so you see, that map had nothing to do with Mitt.

hope that helps.
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Old 02-02-2012, 12:06 PM   #809
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Apparently the Trump story might be wrong. Look's like Mitt's the guy. I'm okay with that, if for no other reason than that it's an endorsement (and more importantly money) that Gingrich won't get.

Makes sense, I guess. Trump wants to be with a winner. Anything that hurts Newt right now is a good thing, and it's clear that Newt wanted this endorsement badly. But again, I don't think it does anything in terms of changing minds.
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Old 02-02-2012, 02:11 PM   #810
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yeah,

He would not want to alienate the Mormons,
that is a pretty good pool to pick from for his next wife.
Larry King did pretty well for himself there.
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