GOP Nominee 2012 - Who Will It Be?, Pt. 3

[INDY500]

common sense, sageness, and intuition tell me that two people who really, really want to be parents and are willing to jump through any and all hoops necessary to do so, while at the same time likely being highly educated and having the means to pursue expensive things like adoption and/or AI, are going to be very, very, very good parents.

I don't expect you to remember all my points in past threads but I largely agree with this. I've said, on average, 2 parents will be better for children than 1 parent. But that does not concede the existence of the mother/father ideal. Just as acknowledging the importance of parents who adopt children does not diminish biological parents as the natural parenting arrangement.

 

[PhilsFan]

I'm really trying to understand why the biological parents matter in the least. Just because of your gut, or "common sense"? What is so special about the biological parents? If a baby is born and adopted in infancy by two loving parents, gay or straight, how exactly will that baby know the difference?

Or do we just want everything to be natural because we like the way the word sounds?

 

[BVS]

Just as acknowledging the importance of parents who adopt children does not diminish biological parents as the natural parenting arrangement.

Poor Jesus... Do you think he suffered from not being raised by his biological father?

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Good point .

It's sort of like when I see those parents throwing all their money into all these treatments to try and make themselves have a kid because they want a biological child. First off, forcing your body to do something that it apparently isn't wanting to do for one reason or another can't possibly be healthy, second, again, why is it so important this child MUST be biologically yours? Why not take all that money and put it towards taking in a child that needs a home?

Kids don't care about this shit, they just want to be taken care of. Why adults can't get this, I don't understand.

 

[deep]

Poor Jesus... Do you think he suffered from not being raised by his biological father?

he had an idenity crisis
and it did not end well for him

 

[corianderstem]

Pfft, Jesus' own father gave him a death sentence.

Some dad.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

This fucking stupid debate about parenting - always completely irrelevant.

Same sex couples raise kids. They can, they do. Whether you think they're good at it, or whether it's right or not, is a completely different debate. If you think a kid having two dads or two mums is something lesser, or something wrong, that's a different debate. If you think there's just one jar of babies - it's a finite resource - and if the gays are sticking their hands in and taking some then there's going to be less for gods own heteros (which I think is part of what Santorum seems to think?) and thus some sort of holy defense needs to be mounted, then that's also a completely different debate.

Again... Same sex couples raise kids. They can, they do. The same sex marriage debate is just about whether or not that kids parents should be allowed to get married. Surely that's a conservative thing right? Better they get married? Given the stability (and sense of stability) and greater security that will provide the kid? Or to put it another way, whether or not they can get married has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not they can have/raise kids together, it's just about allowing them to do so in the most stable, secure, conservative way, no?

 

[Irvine511]

agreed. you really would think that conservatives would want as many people to be married and in committed relationships and having as boring sex as possible.

raising children is something separate from the marriage debate. one does not need to have children to be married, nor does one have to get married if one has children.

conservatives like Santorum, however, totally out of arguments, have posited the distortion of "kids do best with a mother and a father" and used it as an argument against same-sex marriage (not parenting). setting aside the fact that kids do better with 2 parents vs. 1, not hetero parents vs. homo parents, this is a distraction from the issue itself, which is the right to marry someone.

 

[Irvine511]

so how do we all feel about the fact that you likely paid much more of a percentage of your income last year than Mitt Romney did?

he paid about 15%.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

conservatives like Santorum, however, totally out of arguments

That's the point isn't it. They can't even find an argument - no matter how weak - that is actually on topic. It's all either completely irrelevant or completely illogical. And I think it's obvious that an ever increasing number of people are understanding exactly that, ie the anti's are actually selling the idea just as well (or better) than the pro's. So umm, keep it up Rick?

 

[BVS]

so how do we all feel about the fact that you likely paid much more of a percentage of your income last year than Mitt Romney did?

he paid about 15%.

Warm and fuzzy inside, or maybe that's all the tea...

 

[Irvine511]

That's the point isn't it. They can't even find an argument - no matter how weak - that is actually on topic. It's all either completely irrelevant or completely illogical. And I think it's obvious that an ever increasing number of people are understanding exactly that, ie the anti's are actually selling the idea just as well (or better) than the pro's. So umm, keep it up Rick?

instead of dressing it up with a patina of "social science," at least Margaret Court has the decency to tell your people that it's God's fault she's a bigot.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Yep. And I'm sure you can see the % in support in Australia rise a few points every time she opens her mouth, and again, the 'my god hates fags' argument is completely irrelevant outside of that particular church, and to anyone other than those who wish to be married under the eyes of that god. They'll still be able to deny it, as they were able to previously with divorcees, mixed race etc. Not a problem. So... next argument?

 

[2861U2]

so how do we all feel about the fact that you likely paid much more of a percentage of your income last year than Mitt Romney did?

Considering he doesn't have an income and considering that 15% is the legal, government-set capital gains rate, I feel fine.

 

[Irvine511]

Considering he doesn't have an income and considering that 15% is the legal, government-set capital gains rate, I feel fine.

oh, i agree. it's totally legal. never suggested it wasn't.

(his investments net him about $25m a year. he also pulls in about $350K from speeches, though he thinks that isn't that much, and it isn't, compared to $25m.)

how do we feel, though, about the nominee of the party being taxed at only 15%, when the bulk of the electorate -- say people making between $60k-90k -- are taxed at a higher rate?

how is that going to play?

 

[2861U2]

how do we feel, though, about the nominee of the party being taxed at only 15%, when the bulk of the electorate -- say people making between $60k-90k -- are taxed at a higher rate?

But that wouldn't change much even if the rate was raised to 20% which- correct me if I'm wrong- is what Obama has proposed.

how is that going to play?

I agree it's an optics problem for him, but I don't think its a big one.

 

[Irvine511]

I agree it's an optics problem for him, but I don't think its a big one.

right. this is the issue.

Romney is pretty much the archetype of the person at fault for the recession. born to privilege, well connected, corporate raider who profited off pink slips and now rests on a massive fortune that's taxed at a low rate. Romney likes policies that are good for Romney.

outside of people making $250K+ a year who's taxes might really go up during a second Obama term, how is he supposed to appeal to anyone else? isn't he exactly what's wrong with America as it's presently structured? isn't he, perhaps, the greatest 1%er of all the 1%ers? or the greatest 0.001% of the top 0.001%?

as you said, optics. it's an issue. and this seems much more legit than the "i like to fire people" comment, which i agree was distorted by the rest of the candidates. can Gingrich make this an issue?

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

so how do we all feel about the fact that you likely paid much more of a percentage of your income last year than Mitt Romney did?

he paid about 15%.

about the same as i did when i heard u2 moved their tax base out of Ireland.

IOW, i care, but I'm willing to overlook it if the end justifies the means. Meaning that in Romney's case I'm willing to overlook it because he's probably 100x better than the other GOP candidates. Maybe 1000x better. And i'm pretty sure that there were several members of the Obama administration who had issues with even filing their taxes, Geithner comes to mind, so its not like its just a GOP thing with the rich trying to hoard their money. Hell, the Irish do it too, apparently.

 

[deep]

anyone that is surprised is kind of stupid

the 15% tax capital gains has been kicked around in the press for sometime now
also, everyone knows that Romney is no longer working (earning wages) at Bain,

I pay taxes at the 15% rate on portions of my income that fall under that category, millions of Americans do.


I do understand when people are surprised that some corporations pay zero, by working a convoluted system.

 

[anitram]

^ Agreed.

The point here should not be what he is making but whether that is the correct tax rate on capital gains (I believe that it is not).

 

[Irvine511]

and Romney, the man himself, becomes the embodiment of the argument for a 2nd Obama term.

 

[Irvine511]

NEWT EX-WIFE UNLOADS ON CAMERA; NETWORK DEBATES 'ETHICS' OF AIRING BEFORE SC PRIMARY

**Exclusive**
Wed Jan 18 2012 18:47:14 ET

Marianne Gingrich has said she could end her ex-husband's career with a single interview.

Earlier this week, she sat before ABCNEWS cameras, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

She spoke to ABCNEWS reporter Brian Ross for two hours, and her explosive revelations are set to rock the trail.

But now a "civil war" has erupted inside of the network, an insider claims, on exactly when the confession will air!

MORE

ABCNEWS suits determined it would be "unethical" to run the Marianne Gingrich interview so close to the South Carolina Primary, a curious decision, one insider argued, since the network has aggressively been reporting on other candidates.

A decision was tentatively made to air the interview next Monday, after all votes have been counted.

Gingrich canceled a press conference on Wednesday to deal with the matter.

"He believes that what he says in public and how he lives don't have to be connected," Marianne Gingrich, Newt's wife of 18 years, explained to ESQUIRE last year.

Developing...

DRUDGE EXCLUSIVE: NEWT EX-WIFE UNLOADS ON CAMERA; NETWORK DEBATES 'ETHICS'

sure, it's drudge. but, hey, why not?

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

and Romney, the man himself, becomes the embodiment of the argument for a 2nd Obama term.

Yet Obama's overall job performance is the embodiment of the argument against a 2nd Obama term.

These guys almost cancel each other out

 

[Irvine511]

Yet Obama's overall job performance is the embodiment of the argument against a 2nd Obama term.

These guys almost cancel each other out

there's no time or space to get into a big defense of Obama's first term. i will maintain that the country is fundamentally better than we were in January of 2009. Obama has made mistakes, he's disappointed. he's also delivered. in my opinion.

i offer you this:

Andrew Sullivan: How Obama's Long Game Will Outsmart His Critics - The Daily Beast

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

It's the fact that Romney is clueless and insensitive enough to say that it's not much money, that kind of money. In 2012, with the US and world economy the way it is. Obviously that's not much money to him, but that's not the point. Arrogant, dumb, out of touch thing to say.

ABC news did some story tonight about his money being in some place, I think it was the Cayman Islands. I didn't watch it, didn't feel like knowing that. Maybe that's one reason he doesn't want to release his tax returns.

 

[2861U2]

sure, it's drudge. but, hey, why not?

Supposedly it's airing tomorrow night, reports Drudge now.

I'd like to see Newt get a little of his own "the public should know everything about a candidate" medicine that he's been tossing against Romney, no matter how personal or negative.

I'm also thinking the SC results will be a lot closer than the current polls reflect. Hopefully whatever this interview is about blunts some of Newt's surge.

 

[2861U2]

there's no time or space to get into a big defense of Obama's first term. i will maintain that the country is fundamentally better than we were in January of 2009. Obama has made mistakes, he's disappointed. he's also delivered. in my opinion.

If so, he has a hill to climb in terms of making that argument and having it resonate, at least judging by a new poll.

Obama Has Achieved Little, Most Americans Say in New Poll

President Barack Obama has hardly achieved anything during his first three years in office, most Americans believe.

Just 12 percent – less than 1 person in 8 – say he has accomplished a great deal, despite Democrats’ boasts that he got through his signature healthcare plan and was in power when Osama bin Laden was killed, according to a new poll published on Wednesday.

A total of 52 percent believe the president has done either “not much” or “little or nothing,” the poll, commissioned by the Washington Post and ABC News, found. The Post said the results showed that Obama “faces a dispirited and polarized electorate that is sharply divided over his record, worried about the pace of the economic recovery and deeply pessimistic about the country’s trajectory.”

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

The Democrats and Obama have done a crap job of properly explaining any of their success to the country at large. Plus, most Americans expect things to be fixed quickly. They don't realize that some of Obama's changes are going to take a while to reveal themselves. We're a very impatient people.

Also, I'm with you in hoping whatever results in South Carolina knocks Gingrich's ego down a peg or 20. Guy could use it.

 

[anitram]

President Barack Obama has hardly achieved anything during his first three years in office, most Americans believe

Then you have nothing to worry about - should be a walk in the park for Romney, a total blowout.

 

[2861U2]

CNN is reporting that Perry is dropping out today and endorsing Gingrich.