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Old 09-23-2011, 08:51 AM   #16
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Maybe the GOP should charge admission to the debates to keep the riffraff out.

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Old 09-23-2011, 10:00 AM   #17
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yes, they did. he is actively serving in Iraq.

Stephen Hill | GOP Debate | Boos | Video | Mediaite

vile. cheering the death penalty, cheering letting someone without insurance die, and booing American soldiers.
Heaven forbid this was a Democratic debate - we'd be hearing all about how the left HATES THE TROOPS every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

How cowardly of every person on the stage not to speak up.

I wish these debates were televized on every network, so that more people could see the revolting behaviour on display.
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:13 AM   #18
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This is thus far pretty painful to watch. Amongst all the completely meaningless sloganeering, I did find this gem:

Bachmann says citizens should keep the full dollar - YouTube
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Old 09-23-2011, 10:37 AM   #19
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Good thing these debates aren't in a small TV studio with no audience or you'd have no comment on them I guess.

the relatives embarrassing you?
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Old 09-23-2011, 11:01 AM   #20
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well, Sully is pissed:

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23 Sep 2011 10:20 AM
The Anger Builds

I have become used to hearing gay people and our lives either ignored or stigmatized or demonized in Republican debates. It is a function of a political party becoming a religion. And so my skin is pretty thick at this point, and my outrage button eroded by two decades of learning to ignore this stuff and focus on the positive arguments we have to make. It's not that I didn't react at the time:

Quote:
10.18 pm. Santorum claims bizarrely that repealing DADT means permission for sexual activity for gays in the military. This is a lie. The same rules of sexual misconduct apply to gays and straights alike. And a gay servicemember is booed by this foul crowd. Santorum keeps saying "sex is not an issue." But that's the current policy! This has nothing to do with sex, as Santorum surely knows. And again, the crowd reveals itself as hateful - even when it comes to those serving their country in uniform. This is one core reason why I cannot be a Republican. So many are bigots - and no one - no one - stands up against them. They're a bunch of bullies congratulating themselves on rooting out the queers.
But as I went to bed last night, the scattered boos for an American soldier in the field at any debate began to sink in. And Santorum's despicable lie in response - that repealing DADT somehow means license of gay sexual misconduct in the armed services - was intended to reduce that soldier, his life and work, to Santorum's obsession: the intrinsic evil of gay sex. Again, this is usual. Gays are used to being reduced to sexual acts rather than being seen as full human beings, like straight people, with sexuality sure, but a whole lot of other things as well.

But somehow the fact that these indignities were heaped on a man risking his life to serve this country, a man ballsy enough to make that video, a man in the uniform of the United States ... well, it tells me a couple of things. It tells me that these Republicans don't actually deep down care for the troops, if that means gay troops. Their constant posturing military patriotism has its limits.

The shocking silence on the stage - the fact that no one challenged this outrage - also tells me that this kind of slur is not regarded as a big deal. When it came to it, even Santorum couldn't sanction firing all those servicemembers who are now proudly out. But that's because he was forced to focus not on his own Thomist abstractions, but on an actual person. Throughout Republican debates, gays are discussed as if we are never in the audience, never actually part of the society, never fully part of families, never worthy of even a scintilla of respect. When you boo a servicemember solely because he's gay, you are saying he is beneath contempt, that nothing he does or has done can counterweigh the vileness of his sexual orientation.

And then I think of all those gay servicemembers who have died for this country, or been wounded in battle, or been on tours year after year ... and the fury builds. Even GOProud, the two gay guys who love Ann Coulter, issued this statement:

Quote:
“Tonight, Rick Santorum disrespected our brave men and women in uniform, and he owes Stephen Hill, the gay soldier who asked him the question about Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell repeal, an immediate apology. That brave gay soldier is doing something Rick Santorum has never done – put his life on the line to defend our freedoms and our way of life. It is telling that Rick Santorum is so blinded by his anti-gay bigotry that he couldn’t even bring himself to thank that gay soldier for his service.
Stephen Hill is serving our country in Iraq, fighting a war Senator Santorum says he supports. How can Senator Santorum claim to support this war if he doesn’t support the brave men and women who are fighting it?”

He can't. Apologize, Santorum.

The Anger Builds - The Dish | By Andrew Sullivan - The Daily Beast
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Old 09-23-2011, 12:13 PM   #21
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Conservative friends are posting how embarrassed they are on Facebook and Twitter.

INDY deflects to a "only talking about the crowd and not the debate, are we?" counter.

Fine. Let's talk about the candidates. Let's talk about how the crowd booed a soldier and none of them said anything.
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Old 09-23-2011, 12:26 PM   #22
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The Tea Party should just get on with actually creating a Tea Party. Split that % off from the Republicans. Let them go with what they really think, no compromises, no beating around the bush, and no dragging others down to their level. Just take an election cycle (this one really is perfect), and go all out. If that many Americans are that stupid, well there you go. If they're not, well, that's the end of that. Otherwise, it's just going to drag on like this, no?
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Old 09-23-2011, 12:29 PM   #23
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Hell I'm just embarrassed for humanity.
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Old 09-23-2011, 12:56 PM   #24
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The Tea Party should just get on with actually creating a Tea Party. Split that % off from the Republicans. Let them go with what they really think, no compromises, no beating around the bush, and no dragging others down to their level. Just take an election cycle (this one really is perfect), and go all out. If that many Americans are that stupid, well there you go. If they're not, well, that's the end of that. Otherwise, it's just going to drag on like this, no?


you betcha!

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Old 09-23-2011, 01:07 PM   #25
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Also - there are going to be approx 4352 'debates' of varying types between now and November next year. Small request (and this goes for the next UK and Australian elections too): Can one of them - just one - actually be a debate? Not just a group press conference? Thanks.
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Old 09-23-2011, 01:51 PM   #26
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I'm not sure if there is anything new or surprising in what Santorum said and the lack of reaction from the other candidates.

The truth is, the war party have never cared for the troops. It always has been a bunch of propaganda.
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Old 09-23-2011, 02:34 PM   #27
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I'm going to regret wading back into FYM, but...

Let's stop with the narrative that "the crowd" booed the soldier. Multiple people here have said that now. It was one or two people.

Sunshine State Sarah: The Truth About the Booing at the Debate

"I was at the debate, in the audience on the right hand side about halfway back. The person who booed was just a few rows in front of us. The booing got an immediate and angry reaction from nearly everyone sitting around him, who hissed and shushed at him. Lots of loud gasps, "Shhhh!" "No!" "Shut up, you idiot!" etc. There was a concrete floor beneath all of our chairs. Ever been in a metal shop or warehouse with a concrete floor? Certain sounds can really resonate on that kind of surface."
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Old 09-23-2011, 02:40 PM   #28
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the issue is less about "the crowd" and more about how the boos were condoned by the candidates who said nothing.

and also about Santorum's dehumanizing a man who is putting his life on the line in Iraq and the crowd's enthusiastic reaction to his response.

at least this one person had the decency to post this on her blog:

Quote:
Please share this post and link it anywhere you see an article that misstates what happened. This is my state and my Republican Party and I want to fight to protect our reputation. There may be different opinions among Republicans about gays in the military, but booing a soldier is not acceptable, and all but one or two people in a crowd of thousands knew that.
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Old 09-23-2011, 02:50 PM   #29
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Santorum said he didn't hear the boos, and James Fallows at The Atlantic reports speaking with an onstage assistant for one of the other candidates who stated they couldn't hear the booing onstage and that the candidate he worked for only realized it had happened while watching the replays afterwards. So it may not be a fair question to ask why none of the candidates responded to the booing. Santorum's response was appalling regardless (failing to thank the soldier, perpetrating the baldfaced lie that DADT repeal "somehow means license of gay sexual misconduct" as Sully put it) but I think it's probably a distortion of what happened to hold the crowd in general or the other candidates responsible for it.



I didn't watch any of this particular debate, I have noticed reading the news today though that even the conservative commentators seem to feel Perry did very poorly.
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Old 09-23-2011, 02:58 PM   #30
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This is thus far pretty painful to watch. Amongst all the completely meaningless sloganeering, I did find this gem:

Bachmann says citizens should keep the full dollar - YouTube
She makes no sense. So he should keep all that dollar. But should also give some of it back?
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