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Old 10-11-2011, 07:14 PM   #226
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If Perry doesn't publicly apologize to Romney and Huntsman tonight during the debate I will lose a great deal of respect for him.
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Old 10-11-2011, 08:53 PM   #227
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What time's the debate for tonight? Did I miss it?
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Old 10-11-2011, 09:56 PM   #228
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Started at 8ET and just ended. It was on BloombergTV, Bloomberg.com or Wapo.com

No major headlines. Romney won as usual, Gingrich was impressive, Perry was same as always. No flubs or sharp attacks from anyone.
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:13 PM   #229
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I have it on my dvr from Bloomberg, good for BET, broadcasting it.
Will try and watch it later.

I can't believe many people watched it, I guess the spinners will decide how this plays in the polls. Sounds like one more step towards a Romney nomination.
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:16 PM   #230
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Here is a sound bite

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Michele Bachmann says if you turn Herman Cain's "9-9-9" plan upside down it becomes 6-6-6. "I think the devil is in the details,"

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics...,1112472.story
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:43 PM   #231
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Romney is quickly convincing me. Perry was boring.

My favorite line was actually by Sen Santorum about the prosperity gap between the rich and poor. He correctly linked growing poverty with growing single heads of family.
"You can't have limited government. You can't have a wealthy society if the family breaks down."

The Peter G. Peterson Foundation ads with the children explaining the debt were outstanding.
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:45 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
He correctly linked growing poverty with growing single heads of family.
"You can't have limited government. You can't have a wealthy society if the family breaks down."

i don't disagree. i don't think anyone disagrees.

the problem is that Rick seems to think this is my fault, and that tax cuts would help more than universal health care.
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:51 PM   #233
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i don't disagree. i don't think anyone disagrees.

the problem is that Rick seems to think this is my fault, and that tax cuts would help more than universal health care.
Universal health care doesn't meet his, or my, definition of limited government.
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:38 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by INDY500 View Post
Romney is quickly convincing me. Perry was boring.

My favorite line was actually by Sen Santorum about the prosperity gap between the rich and poor. He correctly linked growing poverty with growing single heads of family.
"You can't have limited government. You can't have a wealthy society if the family breaks down."

The Peter G. Peterson Foundation ads with the children explaining the debt were outstanding.
http://americanresearchgroup.com/

If Romney comes in a strong 2nd in SC, I'd say he has this thing sowed up.

The other early contests are all looking really good for him. The GOP primaries could end early.
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:40 PM   #235
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Universal health care doesn't meet his, or my, definition of limited government.

oh, i agree. it has to be done by government.

but you're cutting off your nose to spite your face. all you're doing is adhering to ideology when it runs counter to what you actually want, which is a wealthier, healthier society.

a single mom with two kids and no live-in father is going to have a vastly easier time taking care of her kids if she has health insurance rather than being one of the 50m who can't afford it, or has to work several jobs to afford it, or who lives in fear of going bankrupt because her kid has cancer.

so, really, being pro-limited government is actually being anti-family. families, especially poor ones, need help. and individual charity isn't nearly enough to address the problem. by all means, make government better, make it less wasteful, but don't tell me you actually care about families if you're against giving mothers and fathers their most basic needs.

just don't pretend you're pro-family when you're really for lower taxes on rich people, which the right likes to call "limited government."
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Old 10-12-2011, 09:30 AM   #236
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So did Rick Perry apologize?

Huffington Post

HANOVER, N.H. -- As the Occupy Wall Street protests have gathered steam and spread across the country, gaining popular support and an increase in media attention, Republican presidential candidates who were once hostile toward the movement have begun speaking more positively about it.

Herman Cain, who initially told Americans taking to the streets to protest income inequality and joblessness that they had no one to blame but themselves, later changed his tune, arguing that the protesters should instead blame the Obama administration for the high unemployment rate.

Former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney, who at first called the protests “dangerous” and “class warfare," sounded a different note Monday at a campaign stop in New Hampshire. “I worry about the 99 percent in America," he said, before adding later in the day: "I understand how those people feel."

And on Tuesday, during a meeting at a retirement center here in Hanover, former Utah Governor Jon Huntsman expressed a measure of support for the movement as well.

"I have to say, much of what they are talking about, some of what they are talking about I think many Americans would be in some harmony with -- and that is trillions of trillions of dollars that have been spent, they have disappeared and we have seen nothing for it," Huntsman said. "We have seen no uplift in terms of economic performance. We have seen no improvement in the unemployment rate."

Speaking to The Huffington Post after his talk, Huntsman expanded on the sentiment.

"There is angst, and there is anger, and there is frustration, in large measure because of the trillions that was spent to little effect," he said. "There is a lot out there that people on all ends of politics are very angry and concerned about."

Huntsman's words hardly qualify as a full-throated endorsement of Occupy Wall Street, like the one made by Republican presidential candidate and former Louisiana Governor Buddy Roemer, who traveled from New Hampshire to New York on Tuesday to speak with the protesters gathered in lower Manhattan. But they reflect one of the most basic truths of a political campaign -- that it is better to align oneself with an increasingly popular movement than to malign it.
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Old 10-12-2011, 10:27 AM   #237
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heh. pretty accurate, imho.

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One thing I've noticed about Perry is that he seems to be able to speak plausibly about Texas, and he turned national questions into Texas questions whenever possible. On one occasion, he seemed to dismiss "policy" as an important part of having an economic plan. The likely explanation for Perry's travails is that he simply never paid much attention to national politics before.

Mitt Romney hewed to his constant strategy of turning every question into an over-the-top attack on President Obama, while limiting his exposure to unpopular policy proposals. Romney's theory is that Republican primary voters are angry but uninformed and thus that the extreme conservatism they have displayed since 2009 reflects primal rage rather than any coherent worldview. He believes he can mollify them by satisfying their emotional animus toward Obama, while continuing to advocate policies that, in many cases, are identical to the president's.

Once again, Romney defended his Massachusetts health care plan by citing its reliance on private insurance, and the way it was designed to cover the uninsured without changing health care for the already-insured. This is exactly what Obama did, too. But, of course, by describing his plan in reasonable terms, Romney realizes that Republicans will conclude it must be different from the hated Obamacare, which is based on socialism and death panels. Romney's contempt for his electorate continues to endear me to him.

From an intellectual standpoint, the debate offered a few brief moments of inadvertent clarity. Newt Gingrich filleted Romney's proposal to eliminate capital gains taxes for people earning under $250,000 a year by noting that those people, by and large, don't have capital gains. Rick Santorum pointed out that social mobility is higher in Europe than in the United States. He presented this as an indictment of Obama, but of course it undercuts the conservative claim that "socialism" destroys social mobility.

Perry Survives the Craziness of the Seventh GOP Debate -- Daily Intel
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Old 10-12-2011, 12:48 PM   #238
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Romney's theory is that Republican primary voters are angry but uninformed and thus that the extreme conservatism they have displayed since 2009 reflects primal rage rather than any coherent worldview. He believes he can mollify them by satisfying their emotional animus toward Obama, while continuing to advocate policies that, in many cases, are identical to the president's.
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Old 10-12-2011, 05:31 PM   #239
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oh, i agree. it has to be done by government.

but you're cutting off your nose to spite your face. all you're doing is adhering to ideology when it runs counter to what you actually want, which is a wealthier, healthier society.

a single mom with two kids and no live-in father is going to have a vastly easier time taking care of her kids if she has health insurance rather than being one of the 50m who can't afford it, or has to work several jobs to afford it, or who lives in fear of going bankrupt because her kid has cancer.

so, really, being pro-limited government is actually being anti-family. families, especially poor ones, need help. and individual charity isn't nearly enough to address the problem. by all means, make government better, make it less wasteful, but don't tell me you actually care about families if you're against giving mothers and fathers their most basic needs.

just don't pretend you're pro-family when you're really for lower taxes on rich people, which the right likes to call "limited government."
Again, what conservatives point to is that when the family breaks down a paternalistic government must step in to provide, not only health care, but food, housing, daycare, and welfare. And of course we already have a provided retirement and the Occupy crowd now demands a free college education as well.

A paternalistic government is not a limited government.

No one proposes abandoning the poor but can we please stop government policies and programs that exacerbate the problem?
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Old 10-12-2011, 05:54 PM   #240
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Again, what conservatives point to is that when the family breaks down a paternalistic government must step in to provide, not only health care, but food, housing, daycare, and welfare. And of course we already have a provided retirement and the Occupy crowd now demands a free college education as well.

A paternalistic government is not a limited government.

No one proposes abandoning the poor but can we please stop government policies and programs that exacerbate the problem?
I would love to have less family breakdowns.

What's that, you want abstinence-only sex ed? Oh well, guess we'll be having more single moms after all.

Oh, and maybe we could nip a few of those single-parent situations in the bud with a morning after pill or first-term abortion care? No?



Guess you get your single-parent and broken homes

Strong morals and strong fathers are definitely lacking, but that doesn't mean turning your back on everything else, does it?
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