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Old 05-16-2003, 03:37 PM   #1
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GOP attack ads

For the last several days, the GOP party has been running attack ads against one of thier own.
Senator Voinivich of Ohio has consistently voted to approve only 350B in tax cuts and only with 50b in spending for state budget relief.
The ads invoke Reagan ( the creator of the largest deficit until now) as his tax cut creating 15m jobs. The ending has a picture of Kennedy Reagan, and Dubyah.

I guess if you are a member of the GOP you aren't allowed to vote your conscience. "With us or against us." Personally I think it is intolerable and a sad statement of that party.

I'm curious what the others think, especially the Repuiblicans here.
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Old 05-16-2003, 03:59 PM   #2
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Yeah...Reagan created 15 million McDonald's employees. They never mention the quality of the jobs he supposedly created. He was too busy union busting and encouraging corporations to slash wages.

He was always a master of miscontruing statistics.

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Old 05-16-2003, 04:23 PM   #3
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Melon, exactly how old were you when Reagan was in office?
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Old 05-16-2003, 05:04 PM   #4
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
Melon, exactly how old were you when Reagan was in office?
A 1-8 year old child prodigy.

Regardless, sometimes, you have to look back, because, at the time, all you're going to get is propaganda. To evaluate Dubya's reign of terror and its effects, it is probably going to take another 20 years of distance.

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Old 05-17-2003, 10:18 AM   #5
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I'm amazed at the lack of response by the Rep.s here.

Must be that they can't defend their parties actions. This is same tactic used in every campaign, it just seems a little more uncomfortable against one of their own.

Sen. Voinovich has a lot of experience in running Gov't. He was the Major of Cleveland for two terms and Ohio Govenor for the two terms allowed by Ohio law. He has always been known as a man of principles even if I didnt agree with his views.

I really think this stategy speaks volumes about the moral character of Bush's admin. but nobody disagrees?
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Old 05-17-2003, 10:32 AM   #6
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What is to defend here? Both Democrats and Republicans use attack ads in campaigns. Whatever it takes to sway public opinion.

In this type of situation, the thread will degenerate into a "our side uses them, but YOUR side (i) used them first, (ii) used worse ads, (iii) is hypocritical about attack ads, (iv) etc.
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Old 05-17-2003, 10:51 AM   #7
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Scarletwine,
I'll say this...if something like this "speaks volumes about the moral character of Bush's admin", what does oral sex with an intern in the oval office then lying about it to a federal grand jury say to you about the moral character of the Clinton admin? Or, are attack ads worse in your opinion?
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Old 05-17-2003, 12:13 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
what does oral sex with an intern in the oval office then lying about it to a federal grand jury say to you about the moral character of the Clinton admin?
All I have to say to this is what does it matter? It would be different if we were talking about "Pope" Bill Clinton, but we aren't. He was a secular president, and, as long as his secular, professional performance was in good order, what does it matter? I would laugh if we fired successful corporate CEOs, merely because they cheated on their wives. Heck, even televangelists don't seem to be immune to this, but I guess all they have to do is turn on their crocodile tears and weep for forgiveness after they've been caught...while begging for $1000 checks.

I care about the issues that matter. Domestic policy--what has Bush offered to even fix the economy? In fact, he seems to be doing a great job ruining it, reverting to old "trickle-down" economics ideas and then pretending that it isn't. There's the joke about "tax and spend" Democrats, but it seems that Republicans are "tax cut and spend," and I'm sure it is his goal to break his father's record of creating a multi-trillion dollar national debt within one term (who previously broke Reagan's record of creating it in two terms).

Or how about lying about being a moderate ("a uniter, not a divider") and then doing all he can to appoint extremist judges and other appointees? An FDA appointee that tells women to "read the Bible" for their PMS isn't exactly moderate or scientific. What about "thou shalt not bear false witness"? Or is morality only important when you are slamming Democrats?

But I know what this is about. Calvinist Protestantism has all but said that they want to establish the presidency as their theocratic and religious leader. In that case, I can't help you, but neither I nor a true majority of the nation want this, and this is meant to be a secular democracy, yes? Of course, I know the likes of Pat Robertson have been busy romanticizing the past, turning our Founding Fathers into Bible-thumping Christians (despite the fact that they were agnostics and unitarians) and what not. I guess that goes back to "thou shalt not bear false witness" and lying. Where's the morality in that?

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Old 05-17-2003, 12:18 PM   #9
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what does Clinton have to do with the Republicans attacking one of their own people? Why is that always touted out whenever Republicans are engaged in morally questionable activity? If I do something wrong and someone calls me on it and I say, "well yeah, but that guy over there who is totally unrelated to the situation did bad stuff too"...does that exonerate me? I must admit, I don't get it.
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Old 05-17-2003, 12:20 PM   #10
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It doesn't help that most prominent members of the GOP, at least as far as I can tell, try to set themselves up as arbiters of morality rather than elected legislative officials. And most Democrats *don't* seem to do that.
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Old 05-17-2003, 01:25 PM   #11
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The point of bringing up Clinton was that most people who say they can't stand Bush liked Clinton. I was bringing up Clinton's morals because someone else disparaged Bush's morals. I WAS NOT THE ONE WHO BROUGHT MORALS INTO THIS CONVERSATION! That would be one Scarletwine who did that. All I was doing was responding, saying "Ok, if you want to talk about morals, let's talk about the left's hero, Bill Clinton."

Good grief, people, don't bring up morals if you don't want to talk about morals.
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Old 05-17-2003, 01:27 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


All I have to say to this is what does it matter? It would be different if we were talking about "Pope" Bill Clinton, but we aren't. He was a secular president, and, as long as his secular, professional performance was in good order, what does it matter? I would laugh if we fired successful corporate CEOs, merely because they cheated on their wives. Heck, even televangelists don't seem to be immune to this, but I guess all they have to do is turn on their crocodile tears and weep for forgiveness after they've been caught...while begging for $1000 checks.
Melon, it's not just about the sex. Democrats all want to say he was impeached because of the sex. Did you forget about the little issue of lying to a federal grand jury? That's why he was impeached.
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Old 05-17-2003, 02:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
What is to defend here? Both Democrats and Republicans use attack ads in campaigns. Whatever it takes to sway public opinion.

The Democrats may have a scorched earth policy too. I canít think of any examples.

In CA I have witnessed it on more than one occasion. D A Capizzi investigated campaign fraud, as the law requires him to do. The problem was, it was a Republican investigating campaign fraud by Republicans.

When he ran for California Attorney General the party abandoned him. I was at a function on election night most party officials treated him like he had the plague.

In our Gubernatorial election last year, the only Rep. to hold state office Sec. of State Bill Jones, could not get any support. Why? He supported McCain in the primary. In the general election he campainged up and down the state for W. It did not matter.
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Old 05-17-2003, 03:11 PM   #14
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And most Democrats *don't* seem to do that.
Unless it is time for a lecture on tolerance.
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Old 05-17-2003, 03:38 PM   #15
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Unless it is time for a lecture on tolerance.
Democrats shouldn't have to lecture on common sense.

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