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melon

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Israel Strikes Terrorist Base in Syria

By RAVI NESSMAN, Associated Press Writer

JERUSALEM - Israeli warplanes bombed what the military called an Islamic Jihad training base in Syria on Sunday in retaliation for a suicide bombing at a Haifa restaurant. It was the first Israeli attack deep inside Syrian territory in more than two decades.

The attack ? one day after an Islamic Jihad bomber killed 19 people ? threatened to widen three years of Israeli-Palestinian violence into neighboring countries and marked a dramatic new strategy in Israel's efforts to stop terror attacks.

Israel, which accuses Syria of harboring and funding Islamic Jihad, said it would strike at terrorists anywhere in the region. A statement from the military also accused Iran of funding and directing Islamic Jihad, saying Israel "will act with determination against all who harm its citizens."

"Any country who harbors terrorism, who trains (terrorists), supports and encourages them will be responsible to answer for their actions," government spokesman Avi Pazner said.

Syria's Foreign Ministry issued a terse statement saying it plans to lodge an "urgent complaint" against Israel with the United Nations. A Jihad spokesman denied the organization has any bases in Syria.

A senior commander from another radical Palestinian group ? the Damascus-based Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command ? said the camp was one of their deserted bases, not Jihad's. The attack injured a civilian guard, the commander said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

There was no immediate U.S. comment on the strike. Secretary of State Colin Powell spoke to Israel's foreign minister after Saturday's suicide bombing amid worries at the time that Israel's response would target Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat.

Sunday's strike came a day before the 30th anniversary of the joint Syrian-Egyptian attack known in Israel as the Yom Kippur War ? named after the holiest day in the Jewish calendar which begins at sundown Sunday. It was believed to be the first Israeli operation on Syrian soil since that war, though in 1985 Israeli warplanes flying over Lebanon pursued Syrian fighters into Syrian airspace and shot them down.

In Sunday's strike, the Israeli air force hit several targets at the Ein Saheb camp about 14 miles northwest of Damascus, according to Israeli security officials. The base was used by several terrorist organizations, including Hamas and Islamic Jihad, the army said in a statement.

Undated footage of the camp released by the Israeli military and taken from Iranian television shows a military officer conducting a tour. In one room were displayed hundreds of weapons, including grenades with Hebrew markings and other weapons apparently captured from Israel. Another scene showed a series of underground tunnels packed with arms and ammunition.

Israel had not yet determined if any people were killed, said Sharon adviser Raanan Gissin. "This was a measured response," he said. "We did not attack Syrian targets, but very specific camps used to train the terrorists."

Speaking on the Al-Jazeera television network, Abu Emad El-Refaei, an Islamic Jihad spokesman in Beirut, denied there were any Islamic Jihad bases in Syria. "All our bases are inside the Palestinian occupied territories," he said. He did not deny militants received training in Syria.

The strike was a dramatic escalation in Israel's response to the suicide bombings that have plagued it during the past three years of violence with the Palestinians. Until now, Israel has focused its retaliation on the Gaza Strip and West Bank, either with large-scale incursions or pinpoint strikes against militant leaders.

Now Israel insisted it was going after the militants' suppport abroad, but the strike threatened to draw Syria into the conflict.

Over the past 30 years, most military action between Israel and Syria has taken place in Lebanon, which is dominated by Damascus and where thousands of Syrian troops are deployed. On April 16, 2001, Israeli warplanes blasted a Syrian radar station in Lebanon, killing three Syrian soldiers. That strike came in retaliation for an attack by Hezbollah, the Syrian-backed Shiite guerrilla group, in which an Israeli soldier was killed.

Since the invasion of Iraq, the United States has hiked up pressure on Syria, accusing it of harboring terrorists. After demands by Washington, Syria closed the offices of Islamic Jihad, the larger Islamic militant group Hamas, and other radical Palestinian groups. However, most of the groups' officials continue to work from their homes in Damascus or from Lebanon.

The United States had been pushing Syria to act further and expel Hamas and Islamic Jihad leaders, but Damascus has refused.

"Syria has been warned more than once by the United States that it should close all the facilities of the Islamic Jihad," Pazner said. "Apparently it has not done so."

Jihad claimed responsibility for Saturday's suicide bombing in the Mediterranean seaside restaurant Maxim, popular with both Jews and Arabs in the northern Israeli city of Haifa. A Palestinian woman wrapped in explosives blew herself up in the crowded restaurant, killing 19 people, including four children, and wounding 55 people.

It was one of the deadliest suicide bombings in three years of violence.

In addition to the attack inside Syria, Israel also conducted operations in Gaza and the West Bank. Israeli troops sealed off parts of Gaza, cutting the 20-mile long coastal strip into four sections, to prevent the movement of militants and weapons, army officials said.

Israeli helicopters launched missile strikes on two sites in Gaza ? a small empty house in Gaza City and the house of an Islamic Jihad leader in the Boureij refugee camp. There were no injuries in either attack, and residents said the militant leader escaped.

In the West Bank, army forces in Jenin destroyed the house of the family of Hanadi Jaradat, a 27-year-old woman identified as the Haifa suicide bomber. The soldiers also destroyed the house of the head of Islamic Jihad in Jenin.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon called his advisers for an emergency meeting Saturday evening, and Vice Premier Ehud Olmert said Israel faced tough decisions and, if necessary, would carry them out regardless of international opinion.

"The world will have to accept our decisions," Olmert said.

Saturday's bombing increased fears Israel might act on threats to remove Arafat. Palestinian officials appealed to international mediators to ensure Arafat's safety.

Arafat condemned the suicide bombing and said it endangered Palestinian interests.

The United States opposes expelling Arafat, and Israel's security chiefs are divided on the issue. Hours after the blast, two Israeli planes briefly circled Arafat's headquarters in Ramallah, and Israeli army jeeps drove past.

When Powell spoke to Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom on Saturday, he was told Israel would consult with the United States before acting against Arafat.

Saturday's bombing brought to 103 the number of suicide bombings in the past three years of Israeli-Palestinian fighting. At least 432 people have been killed in these attacks.

***********************

Thoughts?

Melon
 
I find myself at a loss of words when debating matters of the middle east. It is a place so full of history and obscure social relations that I, or any westerner, can't ever hope to fully appreciate what is happening.

I REALLY recommend people to read Exodus by Leon Uris. Though a somewhat biased book, you begin to understand the plight of the jewish peoples. since they have existed so has anti-semitism. They live on a tiny piece of land in a sea of enemies.

It seems the trend these days-if you are very liberal and anti-bush..or anti-america - is to condmen Israel a lot.
I, however, cannot bring myself to do this.
I do not feal justified in passing any judgment over there.

All I hope, is that there will be a day when Jews no longer have to worry about getting blown up on the bus and arabs no longer have to worry about Planes and tanks...but I doubt I will see this in my lifetime
 
Israel has the right to defend itself. Why on Earth does Syria allow Humas or any other terrorist organization to operate from its territory? These groups are attacking Israel, and any aid an support that Syria gives these groups makes Syria an agressor against Israel. If Syria persists in its behavior in this regard, it should not be surprised when they start to suffer the consequences of their stupid and misguided actions. Syria's Primeminister would be smart if he cleaned house now and pulled their troops out of Lebanon. With a standard of living ranked #110 in the world, worst than those that live in the Occupied Palestinian territories at #98, Syria does not have time to be risking war with Israel.
 
I don't think the Syrian government denied that the places attacked were training grounds for terrorists...and I don't think there was a big loss of life; if this is the case...it is probably a legitiment action.

However, not the most ideal one since it will only escalate hatred between Israel and the Arab countries.

I do, however, not agree with them bombing houses on the gaza strip as they did yesterday simply cos they say these houses harbour terrorists. This is risky and dangerous for civilians living in the area
 
And as in the past Israel dosn't proof that they hit terrorists - they say they hit terrorists - syria says they hit civilists.

I don't want to imagine how other countries self defend in the future without evidence. Syria is a souvereign country and because of that Israel violated international laws. I hope the UN can stop this violent government in israel. It was verry counterproductive for the peace process to attack another country. It's bad enough that they kill people instead sending them into a court room.

Klaus
 
Israel has a responsibility to its citizens to defend them. The Citizens of Israel elected and support the current government and I'm sure most Israely citizens supported the attack on the terrorist camp in Syria. Arab governments have a choice, they can be a part of the problem, or they can be a part of the solution. Syria has been apart of the problem for a long time and with a standard of living of #110, its clear their foriegn policies are hurting their own people. About time the Syrian Government got out of the habbit of supporting Terrorist and developed a peaceful policy towards Israel so they can concentrate on bringing the standard of living up in their own country.

"And as in the past Israel dosn't proof that they hit terrorists - they say they hit terrorists - syria says they hit civilists."

Israel has the right to defend itself against countries that support and harbor terrorist that target its civilians. It is a fact that Syria does support these groups that attack Israel. That gives Israel the right to strike back at Syria.

I don't want to imagine a world where pacifist influenced idea's allow terrorist and rogue regimes to slaughter and kill with near impunity. We know that those policies contributed to the slaughter of 6 million Jews. People have to defend themselves and know one know these facts better than the people of Israel.

"Syria is a souvereign country and because of that Israel violated international laws."

It is not a violation for Israel to defend itself. It is a Violation for Syria to support terrorist groups conducting the slaughter of Israely childern. I hope the UN supports the current actions of the Israely government and gets Syria to close up its support for terrorism.

"It was verry counterproductive for the peace process to attack another country. It's bad enough that they kill people instead sending them into a court room."

Israel sends plenty of people to the court room and tolerates far more shit than I think most other countries would if this were being done to them. Its counterproductive to allow countries in the region to support terrorist actions against Israel and then to condemn Israel for defending itself against such actions.
 
I'm confused and frustrated over this situation. I support Israel and its right to defend itself. I also support peace for all nations of the Middle East and oppose terrorism in any form. I do not want Arabic/Islamic states and people to get attacked. But they need to stop supporting terrorism. The hell of the problem is that the governments may be supporting terrorist outfits but I do not think the ordinary people of these countries do. Unfortunately the ordinary people have to pay the price for the folly of their governments. Maybe the real hope is that the governments get more democratic and start things like constructive consultations with their citizens which is in line with Arabic and Islamic tradition as well. Jordan does this to good effect. Other countries, like Iran, have very strong pro-democracy movements which should be supported.
 
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Just another day, same as the one before it in the Middle East.

I don't take sides except to take the side of the innocent civilians blown up in restaurants or buses and their families, and the little kids shot to death and maimed as collateral damage or retaliation. These are the only victims. Arafat, Sharon, all the rest are so repugnant to me that no words exist.

Israel is lucky in this regard - the Arab states are corrupt and lack any sense of unity whatsoever.

Suicide bombing = wrong. Attacking Syria = wrong. I have very little sympathy or patience for the governments of this region anymore.
 
The use of military force, is never wrong, if it is required to defend oneself.
 
"technically, pre-emptive strikes aren't self-defense"

Pre-emption is to act before another commits such an act. In 1967, Israel pre-emptive actions prevented Israel from being overrun and prevented the greatest massacre of Jews since World War II.

But Israel's strike today was not a pre-emptive strike, but a strike in response to terrorism.
 
yes, but all I'm saying is that rarely is pre-emption carried out with real hard proof that the ones you are attacking were about to attack you

:S
 
STING2 said:
The use of military force, is never wrong, if it is required to defend oneself.

That's what the Serbs said too while they bombed the civillian population of Sarajevo for 3 years.
 
anitram,

"That's what the Serbs said too while they bombed the civillian population of Sarajevo for 3 years."

Yep, but it was obvious that targeting unarmed civilians had nothing to do with self defense.
 
STING2 said:
"That's what the Serbs said too while they bombed the civillian population of Sarajevo for 3 years."

Yep, but it was obvious that targeting unarmed civilians had nothing to do with self defense.

So why is it then alright in this case? Israel also targetted unarmed civilians here.
At least, that's what Syria says, Israel asserts that it targeted a terrorist camp. Who's stating the truth here? I don't know. But I'm always sceptical when parties are attacking another party just based on their own judgement and not backed by evidence to the rest of the world.

C ya!

Marty
 
Seems like other countries copy the preemptive strike diplomacy now.

I'm sure Israel feels like they didn't violate international laws.
Since they are technically still in war with syria (also they didn't attack each other for 30 years)

the fact that they are the only nuclear superpower in the mid-east dosn't seem to help in the peace process there.

The loosers are the civilians on all sides. They have to pay the blood, no matter if they are israelis who are killed by suicide bombers or if they are palestinensians who are shot or bombed by the Israeli government :sad:

Klaus
 
Klaus said:
And as in the past Israel dosn't proof that they hit terrorists - they say they hit terrorists - syria says they hit civilists.

Terrorists are usually not part of a regular army. So technically, terrorists are civilians.
 
Popmartijn,

"So why is it then alright in this case? Israel also targetted unarmed civilians here.
At least, that's what Syria says, Israel asserts that it targeted a terrorist camp. Who's stating the truth here? I don't know. But I'm always sceptical when parties are attacking another party just based on their own judgement and not backed by evidence to the rest of the world."

Israel is NOT targeting Civilians. Targeting civilians in Syria would accomplish nothing. If it was Israel's goal to simply target civilians, Israel could kill half the population in Syria in 30 minutes with its Nuclear Weapons. It would only take Israel a matter of a few days or weeks to remove and slaughter every Palestinian on the West Bank. But that is not what Israel does. They respect innocent human life unlike the Terrorist and many Arabs.

At Jenin, the Arab press raged that Israel had murdered 7,000 people. It was later found that only 48 civilians had died and all were from accidents. This finding was done by United Nations forensic teams.

The targeting of innocent civilians is what Palestinian Terrorist, Humas, Hezbolah, and other terror organizations do. These organizations kill more innocent people on an anual basis than Al Quada. Syria supports them. Just as the USA had the right to strike the Taliban, Israel has the right to strike any government or terrorist organization in Syria that is attacking it.

Israel is a democracy and the people that live there know about Genocide and Gross human rights abuses. They were the victims of it when many of them or their parents lived in Europe back in the 1930s and 1940s.

The Syrian Government on the other hand is not a democracy. It has been engaged in warefare and terrorism against Israel since Israel was formed in 1948.'



Klaus,

How is the Israely strike any different than US Strikes on Al Quada or the Taliban in Afghanistan?
 
Klaus said:
if i remember it correctly Afghanistan got a ultimatum and Mr. Powell did a good job in forming a international aliance

Yes. Everyone was in on the action in Afghanistan. Israel's attack on Syria is being blasted by the neighbors, including countries like Jordan and Turkey which both have diplomatic ties with Israel and a vested interest in peace and stability in the region. This is just de-stabilizing things and this scares the :censored: out of me.
 
Klaus,

That true, but the USA would have gone into Afghanistan without a Coalition if it had too. Israel has presented Syria with tons of ultimatums over the past 30 years. They have tried negotiations and all kinds of things and Syria has done NOTHING!

Why does Syria allow Terrorist to operate from its territory!?

Why is it ok for Syria to allow terrorist that target and murder Israely childern to operate from its territory, but its not ok for Israel to target those terrorist operating from Syrian terrority.

It is insane.

Israel is a true democracy unlike its neighbors. Its people know what it is like to be ignored by most of the international community as it happened in the 1930s. They know what its like to fight four wars for their survival, and to be surounded by enemies. The people in Israel are smart, politically active, well educated, and are willing to do what is necessary to defend themselves.

Its frustrating to see nations that support terrorism and allow for the most disgusting human rights abuses to be plotted and planned and supported from their territory, escape with so little scurtiny on balance to their actions.

Instead of jumping all over the only true democratically elected government in the middle east, perhaps its time people looked at their side of the story for once and started to reserve some judgement on countries that harbor terrorist like Syria.

How does Syria support for terrorism help the peace process.? Hell how does Syria's support and harboring of terrorism help anyone?

Israel has the right to defend itself. The right of self-defense does not require one to have a coaltion. It does not require and ultimatum although Israel has given several of those over the past 30 years.
 
STING2 said:
Israel has the right to defend itself.

I will agree with this, but to a degree.

STING, since you are a big fan of UN Resolutions, I'm certain that you are likely aware of the number of them Israel is breaking by callously expanding settlements - the newest number being 600 new structures which are against international law, against UN Resolutions, against the roadmap and against what the current US administration has said over and over again about halting settlement expansion. So, is it not true that Israel, while an elected democracy, is also continuously disregarding legalities, and essentially provoking an already hostile population for absolutely no reason whatsoever except that it happens to be the biggest beast in the jungle, so that it can?

Surely, you will agree that UN Resolutions are sacred.
 
anitram said:


I will agree with this, but to a degree.

STING, since you are a big fan of UN Resolutions, I'm certain that you are likely aware of the number of them Israel is breaking by callously expanding settlements - the newest number being 600 new structures which are against international law, against UN Resolutions, against the roadmap and against what the current US administration has said over and over again about halting settlement expansion. So, is it not true that Israel, while an elected democracy, is also continuously disregarding legalities, and essentially provoking an already hostile population for absolutely no reason whatsoever except that it happens to be the biggest beast in the jungle, so that it can?

Surely, you will agree that UN Resolutions are sacred.

I agree, stop the settlements. They are a provocation and are making a bad situation worse. The behavior of the Sharon government is an impediment for peace for Israel and its neighbors.
 
anitram,

I'm against the settlement building being done by Israel on the West band but in any event it is still a tiny fraction of the West Bank and not an issue of life and death and security like the terrorism issue is. There would be no settlement building in the West Bank if the Palestinians had accepted the deal that gave them 95% of what they wanted 3 years ago.

The UN resolutions are very important. But one must realize that UN resolutions passed against Israel have all been passed under CHAPTER VI rules of the United Nations. Under Chapter VI rules of the United Nations, enforcement of the resolution can only be brought about through NEGOTIATION.

Israel has bent over backwards to Negotiate. It is the Palestinians that have refused every plan for peace from the UN Partition plan of 1948 to the most recent peace plan in 2000.

Israel has the right to defend itself with all means necessary, just like any person about to be the victim of rape or murder does as well. It has also according to UN resolutions tried to find a negotiated peace settlement and has accepted several plans and been ready to implement them. The Palestinians have rejected every peace plan that has come their way.

Israel does care about the UN resolutions and is trying to find a netotiated settlement according to UN resolutions. The Palestinians have shown no interest in a Negotiated settlement as evidence by their rejection of every peace plan from 1948 till now. Israel cares more about implementing the UN resolutions than the Palestinians.
 
STING2 said:
The UN resolutions are very important. But one must realize that UN resolutions passed against Israel have all been passed under CHAPTER VI rules of the United Nations. Under Chapter VI rules of the United Nations, enforcement of the resolution can only be brought about through NEGOTIATION.

And how come those resolutions have all been passed under Chapter VI rules and not under Chapter VII rules? Is the 2 word phrase 'US veto' enough?

C ya!

Marty
 
Popmartijn,

Please name one UN resolution passed against Israel that the US Vetoed from being passed under Chapter VII rules. In fact can you name any UN resolution passed against Israel where there was ever a majority in the Security Council that wanted to pass it under Chapter VII rules? Please name the resolution.

Klaus,

Israel goes after terrorist just like the police go after violent criminals. The IDF target terrorist. The Terrorist target Israely Teens in disco's perhaps listening to U2. Thats the difference, and its a huge one.
 
STING2 said:
Israel has bent over backwards to Negotiate.

I would argue that its continued settlement building shows that they really aren't willing to negotiate.

Of course, part of the problem, indeed, is that the two major political parties in Israel--Labor and Likud--widely disagree on this issue. I would say that, yes, Rabin and Peres did bend over backwards to negotiate. But Netanyahu and Sharon? Not at all. It's about provocation.

But I am also not the biggest fan of the Islamic world anyway. They have an entire sphere of influence all their own and they bitch over a little sliver of land that "the Jews" have. I say that if they are willing to share Mecca, then perhaps Israel can share Jerusalem. But, no. As much as all these petty Islamic nations hate Israel and are rabidly anti-Semitic (i.e., our "ally," Saudi Arabia, banned Barbie dolls recently calling them "Jewish"), they hate each other--including the Palestinians. Maybe Israel can give all these people with a death wish what they really want and kill them so they can be in their misogynist paradise with their virgins that they can defile.

Or, better yet, they can rot in hell.

Melon
 
Israel goes after terrorist just like the police go after violent criminals. The IDF target terrorist. The Terrorist target Israely Teens in disco's perhaps listening to U2. Thats the difference, and its a huge one.

Police dosn't kill without a proof. And in most cases i have seen Police dosn't accept colaterale damage or does bulldoze buildings of families of "evildoers"

To the comment to Popmartijn:
There would be far more resolutions against Israels action if the US wouldn't protect Israels behaviour with israels behaviour veto in the UN.

In the last peace-effort i can't remember that Israels government stopped their settlers, stoped building the wall in a terretory which was traditionally palestinensian or contributed anything other essential to the peace-process.

Klaus
 
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