good article about african aid by bill o reilly - Page 6 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-13-2005, 09:48 AM   #76
Refugee
 
starsforu2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ashburn, VA (and permanently residing in u2bonogirls head!)
Posts: 2,070
Local Time: 09:08 PM
I wanted to clarify people's perception of the Abstinence Programs that are endorsed by George Bush. It isn't an only Abstinence program. It's known as the ABC program. Abstinence, Be Faithful, Use Condoms. I don't know why people jump all over this. It's seems extremely sensible. You push for an ideal, you encourage good behavior and you provide protection if both of those fail. Perhaps it's just another stick to beat Bush with.

In Uganda (an oft studied success story in the reduction of Aids in a population), they used a combined effort to encourage kids to wait longer, to warn people to not have so many partners and provided condom education to stem the rise of Aids infections. Apparently, in places like Taiwan where the biggest problem with infections was in the sex trade, obviously Abstinence just isn't going to go over well, and they didn't push for it.

And the argument that it's going against people's nature to practice abstinence is a poor one. It's against our nature to teach us not to settle our quarrels with our fists, but we're taught that it isn't right and most of stop punching the kid that disagrees with us in 3rd grade. Just because people tend toward bad or self-destructive behavior doesn't mean you should endorse it and call it normal. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying that Abstinence is going to reach every kid, but if it makes a few more wary about having sex until later, it's a good thing.

Here's an interesting article on the ABC program. I just googled it, I think it's an official document from the US gov.

http://www.usaid.gov/our_work/global...factsheet.html
__________________

__________________
starsforu2 is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 10:31 AM   #77
War Child
 
NYRangers78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: THE BRONX NEW YORK GOD BLESS AMERICA
Posts: 540
Local Time: 08:08 PM
i agree with bushs abstinence programs..and isnt it horrible of people to think that the africans arent capable of abstinence like theyre some wild animals?
__________________

__________________
NYRangers78 is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 10:50 AM   #78
Refugee
 
starsforu2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ashburn, VA (and permanently residing in u2bonogirls head!)
Posts: 2,070
Local Time: 09:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by NYRangers78
i agree with bushs abstinence programs..and isnt it horrible of people to think that the africans arent capable of abstinence like theyre some wild animals?
I think it's called the Soft Bigotry of Low Expectations, although I might be mangling the quotation.
__________________
starsforu2 is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 03:31 PM   #79
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by starsforu2


I think it's called the Soft Bigotry of Low Expectations, although I might be mangling the quotation.
I think that is what it is called.

And I'd say it's a pretty accurate description.
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 03:36 PM   #80
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,473
Local Time: 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by NYRangers78
i agree with bushs abstinence programs..and isnt it horrible of people to think that the africans arent capable of abstinence like theyre some wild animals?


i'd say that's a drastic simplification of a very complex problem.

it's the same line of logic that brought us the idea that Iraqis would great American troops with flowers as if it were the Netherlands and it was 1945.

fewer areas of human behavior are more complex and culturally influence than sexuality, and simply telling people to abstain isn't going to do much good.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 06:37 PM   #81
The Fly
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 211
Local Time: 02:08 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by NYRangers78
cool...im a big celtic supporter.....sucks o neill had to retire....i root for scotland when they arent playing america or ireland...
Lean times for celtic and rangers at the moment. 10 years ago rangers had a team that could challenge the best in europe but not any more. Half the population of glasgow seem to support Ireland over scotland, this really annoys me because they call themselves scottish but then support another team over their own nation (just because their grandparents are from Ireland or something). Alot of people seem to support any team against england too! My gran is english so i follow them after scotland but one of my mate's mum's is english and he hates england and supports any team against them (he doesn't think this sounds silly)
__________________
nickypiemcg is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 07:12 PM   #82
Refugee
 
bonoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Edmonton, Canada- Charlestown, Ireland
Posts: 1,398
Local Time: 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nickypiemcg


Half the population of glasgow seem to support Ireland over scotland, this really annoys me because they call themselves scottish but then support another team over their own nation (just because their grandparents are from Ireland or something).
Geez, its no wonder, they do lke to see their team win a bit.
__________________
bonoman is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 08:32 PM   #83
Acrobat
 
echo0001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: WV-USA
Posts: 349
Local Time: 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by starsforu2


And the argument that it's going against people's nature to practice abstinence is a poor one. It's against our nature to teach us not to settle our quarrels with our fists, but we're taught that it isn't right and most of stop punching the kid that disagrees with us in 3rd grade. Just because people tend toward bad or self-destructive behavior doesn't mean you should endorse it and call it normal. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying that Abstinence is going to reach every kid, but if it makes a few more wary about having sex until later, it's a good thing.


You argument is flawed.

Since you want to get into behaviors that are linked to instinct, consider this; there isn't a mature animal (not discussing human society here, but individual animals, including individual people) in the world that will fight if there's any way it can avoid violence. How many time have you seen two rowdy dogs back down from fighting, or two angry men, for that matter? In the great, grand, vast majority of individual confrontations, and even in many group confrontations (small groups, NOT armies directed by governments, not talking about human society, remember), the parties will attempt to find a way to avoid physical violence. Self-preservation trumps violence in the instinct department.

However, every animal in the world will fuck anything it can fuck, as many times as they can. Preservation of The Species is probably the strongest physical instinct that exists.

It takes a lot of education to teach abstinence--and people will still come up with excuses; "He doesn't look sick.", "I'm healthy, I won't catch anything if I indulge just this once," etc. The instinct that drives us into one-another's beds is strong and persistent. Mother Nature says "Fuck", and she says it in a very loud voice.
__________________
echo0001 is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 09:26 PM   #84
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
U2DMfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: It's Inside A Black Hole
Posts: 6,637
Local Time: 07:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by NYRangers78
maybe he never said it was a disaster but he basically gave the impression that it was. bono basically admitted that the money never got to where it went to.....and if u dont think the UN is corrupt, then i have a bridge in brooklyn to sell you. years ago it wasnt. but now? i wouldnt believe the U.N. for anything as long as annan is in charge.
I don't see it

O'REILLY: OK. I like that. Because that, at least, gives you a chance. You know, your friend, Bob Geldof, you know.

BONO: Yes.

O'REILLY: Remember, he raised all that money with the Live Aid he did. Very little of it got to anybody.

BONO: Well, look, I've seen what it did. I've been to Africa, I've seen -- it did a lot. But the reason I got involved in this whole business that I'm in now is largely to do with Live Aid, and it engaged me and engaged my generation to realize that we actually -- we can't escape what's going on in Africa, and that we have to look at sometimes the structural problems of the poverty of Africa.

And it's true, Live Aide, we made -- I think $200 million on the English side. And we thought, wow, we've cracked it. What an amazing thing. And then we realize that Africa pays $200 million every week on old debts that it was lent by -- you know, for Cold War reasons, you know, during the Cold War to dodgy dictators, and we were still collecting those debts, even though it was two generations later.

O'REILLY: Yes. And all the money in Switzerland with Mobutu and all these guys. Now, let's talk a little AIDS.

BONO: But there was corruption there on our part. You don't understand that.

O'REILLY: I don't know if it was corruption.

BONO: Not just on their part.

O'REILLY: I don't think you guys understood what you were getting into in the Live Aid situation. Oh, you mean there was corruption on the USA's part?

BONO: No, it wasn't just the U.S., but Europe, all the rich countries lending this money willy-nilly and then demanding it back a generation later. It was just a mistake.

that was the only Live AID portion, here is the link
http://www.atu2.com/news/article.src?ID=3490&Key=&Year=
__________________
U2DMfan is offline  
Old 06-13-2005, 11:16 PM   #85
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Saracene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Melbourne, Australia, some time after tea
Posts: 6,325
Local Time: 01:08 AM
Bono is sure skilled at ducking sticky questions.
__________________
Saracene is offline  
Old 06-14-2005, 05:33 AM   #86
New Yorker
 
Sherry Darling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,857
Local Time: 09:08 PM
What precisely was he doging? I think Bill was the one ducking--esp. if you saw the interview. It doesn't quite come off just reading the transcript, but that "and all the $ in Switzerland with Motutu" thing he said very fast and cut Bono off when he (Bono) was going to elaborate. Bono made two critical points there.

1. Poverty is structural.
2. Corruption is a *realationship*--the old Cold War loans Bono refers to are a perfect example.

To give credit where credit is due, though, at the end of the interview, O'Reilly said he agreed with debt relief and thought Bono was doing "God's work".
__________________
Sherry Darling is offline  
Old 06-14-2005, 05:37 AM   #87
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 02:08 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling
To give credit where credit is due, though, at the end of the interview, O'Reilly said he agreed with debt relief and thought Bono was doing "God's work".
Nice of him. I love the way these conservatives bring God into everything.
__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 06-14-2005, 05:48 AM   #88
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 01:08 AM
Some African countries are democracies, like Uganda. Some, like Zimbabwe, are stuck with odious dictators. Debt relief in Uganda helped that country greatly. They have clean water in many areas, they have more kids in school, they're doing better in general. And even O'Reilly supports debt relief in principle. The G8 has just agreed to drop a whole slew of debt, and my hat's off to them.
__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 06-14-2005, 06:00 AM   #89
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
80sU2isBest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 4,970
Local Time: 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy


Nice of him. I love the way these conservatives bring God into everything.
God forbid anyone should ever talk about the creator of the universe...
__________________
80sU2isBest is offline  
Old 06-14-2005, 06:38 AM   #90
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Saracene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Melbourne, Australia, some time after tea
Posts: 6,325
Local Time: 01:08 AM
Point taken, I haven't actually seen the interview. But I got the impression of Bono of ducking the point that a lot of Live Aid money went into the wrong hands, such as the Ethiopian dictator mentioned at the start of the thread. Instead he just says vaguely, "I've seen what it did, it did a lot".
__________________

__________________
Saracene is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com