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Old 06-11-2005, 09:29 PM   #31
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you dont like o reilly fine. thats your opinion...doesnt change the fact that even bono admitted that the first live aid was an unorganized disaster and that people who were supposed to be helped werent helped...if arianna huffington wrote this piece would be saying the same thing??

in essence live aid was run by bleeding heart liberals who didnt know how to get done what they needed to get done...otherwise the aid wouldve gotten to the right people...and yes the un is corrupt. the oil for food scandal is proof of that.

and theres no reason to just throw money around just to throw it around if it really isnt going to solve anything ....but thats what i love about liberals, when something is wrong, lets throw money on top of more money to fix the problems instead of getting to the real root of the problems. im not necessarily applying that logic to africa but it does seem to be the case a lot of the time. live in new york youll see what i mean..


and america should not go in unilaterally, they should enlist the help of all of europe..
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Old 06-11-2005, 10:07 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by NYRangers78
you dont like o reilly fine. thats your opinion...doesnt change the fact that even bono admitted that the first live aid was an unorganized disaster and that people who were supposed to be helped werent helped...if arianna huffington wrote this piece would be saying the same thing??
Sure Bono may have admitted this. But just a reminder that Live Aid was 20 odd years ago. It's hardly relevant to the discussion now as the worlds geo-poiltical structure has changed quite a lot. Would it be fair to use examples of communist USSR in reference to modern day Russia? No. It's only helpful to create an "argument" using cheap talking points.

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Originally posted by NYRangers78
in essence live aid was run by bleeding heart liberals who didnt know how to get done what they needed to get done...otherwise the aid wouldve gotten to the right people...and yes the un is corrupt. the oil for food scandal is proof of that.
You do know that the oil for food scandal, whilst to be condemned and a horrible event, is peanuts to the 8.7 billion dollars which the US has completely in Iraq in the few months immediatly following there invasion of Iraq. Also I am not mentioning the millions of gallons taking without being metered either. However that is oll irrellevent because I do not see the corralation between Iraq and Africa.

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and theres no reason to just throw money around just to throw it around if it really isnt going to solve anything ....
*cough*War in Iraq*cough*

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Originally posted by NYRangers78
but thats what i love about liberals, when something is wrong, lets throw money on top of more money to fix the problems instead of getting to the real root of the problems. im not necessarily applying that logic to africa but it does seem to be the case a lot of the time. live in new york youll see what i mean..
I'm not in the best position to talk about New York etc. But if fiscal responsibility is the issue we can always have Clinton vs Bush rd 176 if you really want to.

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and america should not go in unilaterally, they should enlist the help of all of europe..
Even those bleeding hearts France and Russia? Seriously if we want to solve Africa's problems America IS NOT the country to lead the effort.
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Old 06-11-2005, 10:10 PM   #33
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So.

Because nobody has the organizational skills, and because the full and far-reaching aid infastructure is not in place, and because no nation is willing to commit to supplying these things, and because we can't seem to come up with a truly effective solution, and because the U.N. is corrupt\inept.....what? We sit back in our Lazy Boys, refuse more aid, and watch Africa go down in flames?

Somebody mentioned military force. Excuse me--this is not some small country like Iraq we're talking about (and you can see how well we're doing there ); it's an entire continent. You're talking about enough troops to secure, and deliver, aid to the ones who need it. I don't think we have that many troops. I don't think we can afford that many troops.

Sending our people in there to fight every local warlord in Africa would be a interminable struggle. Sending outside military forces into Africa (to fight) is the worse suggestion yet.

Barring any better answer, it looks like we're going to have to rely on the liberals and humanitarians who are willing to do what little is now possible; waiting for somebody who can\will do it all seems to be truly pointless.

Throwing money around may seem like a drop in the ocean--but when all you can come up with is drops...well, enough drops can make an ocean.

btw, the only way Bill O'Reilly is going to get any serious attentin from me is if he gets down on his knees and kisses my ass, and even then only for long enough to slap his face off.
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Old 06-11-2005, 10:12 PM   #34
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fine maybe europe should lead the effort for africa....but to me theres no doubt they should be working together to end the horrible things going on there...im not saying nothing should be done in africa guys...i would like to see the problems there solved just as much as everyone here...
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Old 06-11-2005, 10:24 PM   #35
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Originally posted by NYRangers78
fine maybe europe should lead the effort for africa....but to me theres no doubt they should be working together to end the horrible things going on there...im not saying nothing should be done in africa guys...i would like to see the problems there solved just as much as everyone here...
I think it Africa is a mess because of what European left behind after the collonytation ( sp ) we left behind a robbed continent, robbed from Money, men and honour. Left there with our tails between our legs, leaving behind a big gap of power.


BTW, aid without free and fair trade will not help anyway. It is just a way to make politics. You kiss my butt and you can get money.
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Old 06-11-2005, 10:30 PM   #36
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If Europe had had a decent chance to colonise Africa before the rise of nationalism and have a proper go of it as they did in India (infrastructure, government and education ~ the liberal tradition of the British Empire lives on to this day, as does the marks of massacres, rebellions and subjegation) then things could be very different indeed, alas that never happened and decades of nationalism and colonial hangover on the backdrop of a Cold War has left its mark on the continent.
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Old 06-11-2005, 10:38 PM   #37
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I think it Africa is a mess because of what European left behind after the collonytation ( sp ) we left behind a robbed continent, robbed from Money, men and honour. Left there with our tails between our legs, leaving behind a big gap of power.
Good points. But as I said to NYRanger that was in the past. The governments of Europe now are completely different and realise the errors made in the past and the need to fix these things.

I think we really need to look at South Africa as our gateway to the continent, we really need to work closely with them to gain a foothold into the continent, not only politically but physically in terms of infrastructure etc.

This can be done no doubt, but we need people in the fucking continent. It won't be solved in the corridors of Washington, nor the corridors of the UN's head office.
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Old 06-11-2005, 10:39 PM   #38
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I think India looking to do well,..for 8 % of the popelation and that stupid caste system is a fine example for a good functional society.
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Old 06-11-2005, 10:45 PM   #39
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It is doing a whole lot better than Africa is.
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Old 06-11-2005, 11:03 PM   #40
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It is doing a whole lot better than Africa is.
for 8 % of the population,..the rest is starving or living from scratch, like in Africa.
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Old 06-11-2005, 11:04 PM   #41
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repeating myself, sorry.
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Old 06-12-2005, 06:42 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by NYRangers78
you dont like o reilly fine. thats your opinion...doesnt change the fact that even bono admitted that the first live aid was an unorganized disaster and that people who were supposed to be helped werent helped...if arianna huffington wrote this piece would be saying the same thing??

in essence live aid was run by bleeding heart liberals who didnt know how to get done what they needed to get done...otherwise the aid wouldve gotten to the right people...and yes the un is corrupt. the oil for food scandal is proof of that.

and theres no reason to just throw money around just to throw it around if it really isnt going to solve anything ....but thats what i love about liberals, when something is wrong, lets throw money on top of more money to fix the problems instead of getting to the real root of the problems. im not necessarily applying that logic to africa but it does seem to be the case a lot of the time. live in new york youll see what i mean..


and america should not go in unilaterally, they should enlist the help of all of europe..
This is so much crap I don't know where to begin.
First Bono never admitted on O'Reilly that Live Aid was a disaster. I have it on tape and rewatched to make sure I was correct. What he said was they didn't realize that it wouldn't help enough because of the huge debt repayments the continent was making.

Second at least the blleding liberals tried to do something and did help if not enough. That's while all the conservatives sat on their freaking hands.

The UN was not corrupt in the OforF it was member countries and their corporations, including the US.
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Old 06-12-2005, 10:28 AM   #43
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maybe he never said it was a disaster but he basically gave the impression that it was. bono basically admitted that the money never got to where it went to.....and if u dont think the UN is corrupt, then i have a bridge in brooklyn to sell you. years ago it wasnt. but now? i wouldnt believe the U.N. for anything as long as annan is in charge.
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Old 06-12-2005, 10:31 AM   #44
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Originally posted by NYRangers78
bono basically admitted that the money never got to where it went to.....and if u dont think the UN is corrupt, then i have a bridge in brooklyn to sell you.
The UN is a convenient whipping boy for the neo-cons, as it takes the attention off their own corruption, stories about the UN get put out on Fox, and people like you yap them up, all the time shouting "USA, USA, USA".
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Old 06-12-2005, 10:39 AM   #45
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USA..USA..USA !!!...
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