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Old 04-26-2005, 11:00 AM   #46
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It's too bad that we can't do the same for gay rights and equality
Someone once said, and I forget who, that 'real change can only ever happen when a human being is prepared to die, and perhaps more effectively, to kill for an ideal. Change in values only ever happen when there are rivers of blood flowing beneath our very feet'.

Now, I am not advocating the use of violence/terrorism for an instant, but that quote rings very true to me now and then.

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Old 04-26-2005, 11:02 AM   #47
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Originally posted by Anthony
At the risk of sounding pedantic, don't you think thats a little oversimplified? If it were as easy as that, there wouldn't be a problem.

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It's not as EASY as that, but it's easily better than griping about how awful Christians/conservatives are and calling people bigots because they don't agree with you. After all, it's only the Christians who would murder Matthew Shepherd and cause prisons to separate people due to sexual orientation.
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Old 04-26-2005, 11:05 AM   #48
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Yeah, well, blacks had to resort to *gasp* "activist judges" to *enforce* the Reconstruction-era amendments that gave blacks equality. 100 years it took. Pathetic.

And then when even the "activist judges" couldn't make Congress and the states take their rights seriously, blacks resorted to rioting. That's really when they started to be taken seriously. It's really quite disappointing.

The only silver lining is that an uber-bigot like Strom Thurmond became the first Senator to hire a black staffer less than a decade after his record-long filibuster (filibuster! *gasp*) against the Civil Rights Act of 1964. So maybe there's hope for Tom DeLay in the long run.

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Old 04-26-2005, 11:06 AM   #49
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
It's not as EASY as that, but it's easily better than griping about how awful Christians/conservatives are and calling people bigots because they don't agree with you. After all, it's only the Christians who would murder Matthew Shepherd and cause prisons to separate people due to sexual orientation.
Christianity, though, does its part to foster and encourage anti-gay intolerance. Christianity whines the loudest anytime there is ever any gay-positive legislation or any legislation at all that might benefits gays. They whined even about anti-bullying laws, because it might possibly maybe stop gay people from being bullied.

Christianity has clearly become part of the problem, and nowhere near the solution. They have purposely positioned themselves as the enemy.

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Old 04-26-2005, 11:08 AM   #50
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And why is NONE of the energy spent on the non-Christians who commit hate crimes on the GLBT community? You make it sound as if words speak louder than actions.
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Old 04-26-2005, 11:11 AM   #51
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And why is NONE of the energy spent on the non-Christians who commit hate crimes on the GLBT community? You make it sound as if words speak louder than actions.
Because what power do they have? I don't like Islam for this reason, but does Islam influence the laws in this nation?

I mean, outside of religion, where else does the hate come from?

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Old 04-26-2005, 11:12 AM   #52
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It's not as EASY as that, but it's easily better than griping about how awful Christians/conservatives are and calling people bigots because they don't agree with you. After all, it's only the Christians who would murder Matthew Shepherd and cause prisons to separate people due to sexual orientation.
One can easily dismiss it as 'griping', but in reality, I do not see the law denying Christians any rights. To my knowledge, there is freedom of religious expression and being a Christian, and whatever that entails, is recognised and protected by law. When you do have some Christian pressure-group vociferating their distate for something, it really does mean that; distate. You will, I think, agree that there is a distinction between finding something offensive and being denied outright certain rights. So, even if people were to follow your suggestion they are still in this situation of being denied basic rights and are 'not' equal in the eyes of the law, for all intents and purposes. Yes, one can dismiss it a 'griping', but one really should consider where such 'griping' is coming from in the first place. It seems a counter-productive word, at best, to use for a group of people who seek legal equality and rights.

Regarding your example; no. It is not just Christians who murder individuals such as Shepherd, but the role of the Christian faith (or any other faith for that matter) comes into play when the issue of morality is brought into it. Too many people are, wrongfully, using christianity as an excuse to deny certain people rights.

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Old 04-26-2005, 11:13 AM   #53
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Originally posted by melon
outside of religion, where else does the hate come from?
Ridiculous question.
How's this for starters?

http://www.anti-everything.com/pages/main.htm
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Old 04-26-2005, 11:16 AM   #54
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Ridiculous question.
How's this for starters?

http://www.anti-everything.com/pages/main.htm
Wow. I mean, really. Trying to compare religion with billions of followers to a small website with what....maybe a few hundred or a few thousand visitors? And making fun of ideas over people? Novel concept. I mean, it's not as if the site is arguing making a certain class of people legally invisible.

If only religion were reduced to a website with a few hundred or a few thousand visitors...then I'd be happily on my way.

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Old 04-26-2005, 11:17 AM   #55
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Originally posted by Anthony
Regarding your example; no. It is not just Christians who murder individuals such as Shepherd, but the role of the Christian faith (or any other faith for that matter) comes into play when the issue of morality is brought into it. Too many people are, wrongfully, using christianity as an excuse to deny certain people rights.
They point to the abhorring murders of individuals such as Matthew Shepherd in the attempt to use it against those with spiritual beliefs. Not just Christians... can you share the last time a Christian murdered anyone over sexual orientation?

(this thread really lost topic... .... .... yep)
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Old 04-26-2005, 11:17 AM   #56
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Ridiculous question.
Not really, when you consider that the basis for denying gay rights always starts with quoting scripture. I am not saying that being a Christian will make you hateful - not at all, however, the interpretation of Christianity by many and its subsequent role by their own fashioning has engendered hate.

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Old 04-26-2005, 11:20 AM   #57
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
They point to the abhorring murders of individuals such as Matthew Shepherd in the attempt to use it against those with spiritual beliefs. Not just Christians... can you share the last time a Christian murdered anyone over sexual orientation?
We're not talking about *murder* or *hate crimes.* We're talking about *equality.* How "noble" of America to decry that it's awful to murder us, but when it comes to us "living," we're told to fuck off, essentially.

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Old 04-26-2005, 11:20 AM   #58
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Originally posted by melon


Wow. I mean, really. Trying to compare religion with billions of followers to a small website with what....maybe a few hundred or a few thousand visitors?

If only religion were reduced to a website with a few hundred or a few thousand visitors...then I'd be happily on my way.

Melon
http://zombietime.com/

Maybe these numbskulls are an example of hatred outside of religion?
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Old 04-26-2005, 11:21 AM   #59
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It would surprise me if anyone got back on topic here.
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Old 04-26-2005, 11:23 AM   #60
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Originally posted by Anthony
Not really
By saying this, you are essentially arguing that there is NO hatred outside of religion.
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