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Old 04-25-2005, 12:42 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
Alright. If our money said:

"In Allah We Trust"

or

"In Buddha We Trust"

Would you all be equally ambivalent? Would you be able to walk away and say "it's irrelevant"?

To note, U.S. 666 was renamed, because it bothered Christians. The trend, it seems, is that if Christians are annoyed, laws are changed. If others are annoyed, they're supposed to "suck it up" and stop being all "PC."

Am I correct?

Melon
I don't see how the word "God" is significant only to the Christian faith.

Perhaps if it said "Lord" or even "Yhwh" I'd see your point.
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Old 04-25-2005, 12:48 PM   #17
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
I don't see how the word "God" is significant only to the Christian faith.
The origins of why it was put on the money to begin with was clearly Christian in origin. If it is accessible to other religions, that is only incidental.

But that's besides the point. It's not about "God"; it's about conservative Christianity trying to shove itself down our collective throats. First it was the money, then it was the Pledge of Allegiance, then it was anti-gay amendments, and now they're trying to stack the judiciary. Yes. Stacking the judiciary. Have you heard the rhetoric coming out of the GOP and the Religious Right these days? They see removing the filibuster as a means to turn this nation into a "Christian" theocracy and to hell with everyone who doesn't fit their mold. They want them all to be second-class citizens.

We're dealing with "Christian mullahs" here. We derided the Islamists as "Islamofascists," so what are we to call the mullahs in our own midst? As Bush "liberates" the Middle East, our own "Taliban" is trying to usurp power.

It's not about "In God We Trust" on the money. It's about what it represents in the larger scheme of things.

Melon
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Old 04-25-2005, 02:55 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
Alright. If our money said:

"In Allah We Trust"

or

"In Buddha We Trust"

Would you all be equally ambivalent? Would you be able to walk away and say "it's irrelevant"?
If most of the residents in America were Islamic or Buddhist, then I would have no problem with that whatsoever. The U.S. is a democratic republic where majority rules, and it just so happens that the majority are Christians. Simple as that.

Though, I could honestly care less what it says on the money.
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Old 04-25-2005, 03:10 PM   #19
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Melon, are you suggesting that the inclusion of "In God We Trust" on our money was a right wing political move? If so, that's absurd. The political environment was MUCH different than it is now.

Even to say the push to preserve the inscription on the coins and cash these days is a right-wing only cause is a bit much. As a Christian who is against much of what the right-wingers are for, I simply want to keep the inscription because it honors God. That's a good thing to do as a nation. And, God is God. It doesn't say Christ or Allah, so there's no need for people to freak out.
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Old 04-25-2005, 03:20 PM   #20
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Well, they're pushing the notion that the U.S. is a secular state. It is, but I don't think "In God We Trust" on our money is a threat to anyone's freedom of conscience.
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Old 04-25-2005, 03:32 PM   #21
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Originally posted by coemgen
Melon, are you suggesting that the inclusion of "In God We Trust" on our money was a right wing political move? If so, that's absurd. The political environment was MUCH different than it is now.
Is it really? In fact, here's a history for you:

Quote:
The original national motto: "E Pluribus Unum"

The original motto of the United States was secular. "E Pluribus Unum" is Latin for "One from many" or "One from many parts." It refers to the welding of a single federal state from a group of individual political units -- originally colonies and now states.

On 1776-JUL-4, Congress appointed John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson to prepare a design for the Great Seal of the United States. The first design, submitted to Congress on 1776-AUG-10 used the motto "E Pluribus Unum." It was rejected. Five other designs also failed to meet with Congress' approval during the next five years. In 1782, Congress asked Mr. Thomson, Secretary of Congress, to complete the project. Thomson, along with a friend named Barton, produced a design that was accepted by Congress on 1782-JUN-10. It included an eagle with a heart-shaped shield, holding arrows and an olive branch in its claws. The motto "E Pluribus Unum" appeared on a scroll held in its beak. The seal was first used on 1782-SEP-16. It was first used on some federal coins in 1795.


The replacement motto: "In God We Trust:"

Almost a century and a half ago, 11 Protestant denominations mounted a campaign to add references to God to the U.S. Constitution and other federal documents. Rev. M.R. Watkinson of Ridleyville PA was the first of many to write a letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase in 1861 to promote this concept. Watkinson suggested the words "God, Liberty, Law." In 1863, Chase asked the Director of the Mint, James Pollock to prepare suitable wording for a motto to be used on Union coins used during the Civil War. Pollock suggested "Our Trust Is In God," "Our God And Our Country," "God And Our Country," and "God Our Trust." Chase picked to have "In God We Trust" used on some of the coins. The phrase was a subtle reminder that the Union was on the side of God regarding slavery. Congress passed legislation. Since a 1837 Act of Congress specified the mottos and devices that were to be placed on U.S. coins, it was necessary to pass another Act to enable the motto to be added. This was done on 1886-APR-22. "The motto has been in continuous use on the one-cent coin since 1909, and on the ten-cent coin since 1916. It also has appeared on all gold coins and silver dollar coins, half-dollar coins, and quarter-dollar coins struck since" 1908-JUL-1.

Decades later, Theodore Roosevelt disapproved of the motto. In a letter to William Boldly on 1907-NOV-11, he wrote: "My own feeling in the matter is due to my very firm conviction that to put such a motto on coins, or to use it in any kindred manner, not only does no good but does positive harm, and is in effect irreverence, which comes dangerously close to sacrilege...It is a motto which it is indeed well to have inscribed on our great national monuments, in our temples of justice, in our legislative halls, and in building such as those at West Point and Annapolis -- in short, wherever it will tend to arouse and inspire a lofty emotion in those who look thereon. But it seems to me eminently unwise to cheapen such a motto by use on coins, just as it would be to cheapen it by use on postage stamps, or in advertisements."

In 1956, the nation was suffering through the height of the cold war, and the McCarthy communist witch hunt. Partly in reaction to these factors, the 84th Congress passed a joint resolution to replace the existing motto with "In God we Trust." The president signed the resolution into law on 1956-JUL-30. The change was partly motivated by a desire to differentiate between communism, which promotes Atheism, and Western capitalistic democracies, which were at least nominally Christian. The phrase "Atheistic Communists" has been repeated so many times that the public has linked Atheism with communism; the two are often considered synonymous. Many consider Atheism as unpatriotic and "un-American" as is communism. The new motto was first used on paper money in 1957, when it was added to the one-dollar silver certificate. By 1966, "In God we Trust" was added to all paper money, from $1 to $100 denominations.
In fact, I'd say, nothing has changed. And it should prove that God was really nowhere in the original Constitution; otherwise, why would there have been a Protestant campaign to "add God"?

Melon
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Old 04-25-2005, 03:47 PM   #22
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I wouldn't mind it, but it's not something I would waste my time campaigning for. I think we've got some bigger issues to be concerned with in this country.
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Old 04-25-2005, 04:13 PM   #23
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Melon, I never doubted Christians were involved. I'm just saying the right-wing party of today wasn't involved. Democrats used to be much more vocal about their Christian faith back in the day. Then the right-wingers had to ruin it by convincing people God was on THEIR side.
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Old 04-25-2005, 04:16 PM   #24
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The right-wing party of today has a mindset stuck back in the 19th century.

The Democratic Party is guilty of severe cowardice these days. God forbid if things like "tolerance" and "equality" now make you a "communist atheist."

I seriously think there's something incredibly insane about modern religion. It makes me sick.

Melon
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Old 04-25-2005, 04:25 PM   #25
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I think these people are wasting their time. I don't give a st what's on money, just so I can spend it.
AMEN
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Old 04-25-2005, 04:27 PM   #26
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Really, you just can't get rid of your heritage. Thank your ancestors for the freedom that you now enjoy. Small things like these are the people who came before you.

Even if they do manage to get rid of this ominous "In God We Trust" then I suppose Thanksgiving Day is next.
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Old 04-25-2005, 04:30 PM   #27
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Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
Really, you just can't get rid of your heritage. Thank your ancestors for the freedom that you now enjoy. Small things like these are the people who came before you.
Like I said, this goes back to my point. If Christians are bothered, then they change things. To hell with "ancestors"; they had it wrong, as far as they were concerned. But if people are bothered by "Christian" things? Well, then you're just a bad person, and who the fuck cares what you think? We're "the majority"!

Quote:
Even if they do manage to get rid of this ominous "In God We Trust" then I suppose Thanksgiving Day is next.
We should make "post-Thanksgiving" a holiday. You know, where the Pilgrims then declared war on the Indians and decimated them. That would make for a great Hallmark card.

" I've got a smallpox blanket JUST FOR YOU! "

Melon
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Old 04-25-2005, 04:49 PM   #28
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We now have all of those different looking state quarters.
How about if we print 1/4 of them In God we trust and 1/4 Allah , 1/4 Buddha, and 1/4 "I ain't trusting nobody"
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Old 04-25-2005, 05:03 PM   #29
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I like the last one.

(Welcome to the forums Linda )
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Old 04-25-2005, 05:28 PM   #30
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I have a resolution:

Keep the "In God We Trust" on everything except the pennies. Start using pennies for the "separation of church and state" text.
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