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Old 05-14-2004, 11:23 AM   #1
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God is not to blame

for all the attrocities/ bad stuff in the world

god is not responsible for this Iraq war, which america went into unlawfully without the approval of the U.N

god does not insure there are repercussions of allied forces getting picked off one-by-one after the war is declared won

god did not make iraqi prisoners strip down naked (or tell them) and be treated inhumanely

it is the work, words and actions of PEOPLE

PEOPLE are petty, corrupt, they well dwell on the small, the frivolous in an attempt to give their 'lives' meaning

in this world we live in PEOPLE are easily distracted, an 'eternal struggle of power' is created, PEOPLE get put into separate categories for their age, race, sex, and they are discriminated against because PEOPLE need to fuel their need to feel superior

it does not have to boil down to the sad and attrocious happenings in the main world (ie Iraq), i was in a bar last night, for no certain reason PEOPLE want to be stupid trying to assert their territory because they were part of "a group" and "another group" did not like them, for no good reason

i am an adult, in the adult world situations like these really bother me because hate between PEOPLE that god created is unexplainable, god does not have a remote control and pressed a button to make two people hate each other

to put it in context of the world where if you go to a kindergarten where there are arab kids and jewish kids playing together (not in the middle east of course), they would not be able to tell the difference, and at that point they wouldnt be able to tell they could become the greatest of enemies when they are grown ups

i am an observer, nothing more nothing less, i have flaws, i have done things i am not proud of, but when you give the world a look on the grand scale. Why did god create such PEOPLE remains one of the universe's biggest mysteries, one would never be answered
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Old 05-14-2004, 11:58 AM   #2
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I think you need to define God (or god as you wrote) before you can continue with discussion.
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Old 05-14-2004, 12:13 PM   #3
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surely there is a higher being who ensures the earth's biosphere is liveable for our species

that we have oxygen to breathe

that our earth is positioned perfectly that if we were a smidge off, and closer to the sun, we wouldnt be able to live because we'd fry to death, or if we were further, we would freeze

that we are given souls/ consciousnesses(!), the ability to think, the ability to communicate or seek to communicate

just a thought though :\
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Old 05-14-2004, 06:09 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by CrashedCarDriver
surely there is a higher being who ensures the earth's biosphere is liveable for our species

that we have oxygen to breathe

that our earth is positioned perfectly that if we were a smidge off, and closer to the sun, we wouldnt be able to live because we'd fry to death, or if we were further, we would freeze

that we are given souls/ consciousnesses(!), the ability to think, the ability to communicate or seek to communicate

just a thought though :\
Science can explain that stuff, too, though.

Angela
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Old 05-15-2004, 08:09 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by CrashedCarDriver
surely there is a higher being who ensures the earth's biosphere is liveable for our species

that we have oxygen to breathe

that our earth is positioned perfectly that if we were a smidge off, and closer to the sun, we wouldnt be able to live because we'd fry to death, or if we were further, we would freeze

that we are given souls/ consciousnesses(!), the ability to think, the ability to communicate or seek to communicate

just a thought though :\
it's all about science , god is a word , he is in our minds , cause we invented him
there are 10000000000000000000000000's worlds like ours
there are pictures to prove that , rovers on mars
and that is not a fiction btw
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Old 05-16-2004, 01:59 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by CrashedCarDriver
surely there is a higher being who ensures the earth's biosphere is liveable for our species

that we have oxygen to breathe

that our earth is positioned perfectly that if we were a smidge off, and closer to the sun, we wouldnt be able to live because we'd fry to death, or if we were further, we would freeze

If he was so concerned with out safety, then it's a puzzle why we were left on a planet with earthquakes, tornadoes, supervolcanoes, draught, floods, vulnerable to any decent-sized meteorite that happens to drop by for a cup of tea and prone to ice ages at long intervals,
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Old 05-16-2004, 06:48 AM   #7
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We live in the best of all possible worlds. If a planet does not have suitible conditions for life non would exist and nobody would notice. Our existence is due only to the vastness of a universe that may or may not have a creator but does contain an infinite permutation of possibilities. In short, we can't blame a God that may or may not exist or use it as an excuse to justify human actions, we must fix what is wrong with the world. It's fucked up and the only way it's going to get any better is if we all work for a better world ourselves.

As for numbers of habitable worlds....
>It is fair to say that within the observable universe 13 billion light years in any direction there is mostly normal matter and dark matter.
>The elements that exist are probably homogenous throughout the universe.
>The forces that exist have the same effect on the elements.
>Processes that created the earth are likely to occur all around the universe and on one of these planets it is quite possible higher forms of life have evolved.
>We have not heard any little green men yet on radio, this could mean several things. 1) Their signals have not yet reached us. 2) Their signals reached long ago and they have sinced been destroyed. 3) They don't use radio waves to transport information and instead have developed a superluminal data transmission deviece.

either way I doubt that we are alone in the vastness of the universe however I fear that until mankind solves it's problems there is a very real threat as a race we will never move away from our "pale blue dot".
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Old 05-16-2004, 02:41 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by WinnieThePoo


it's all about science , god is a word , he is in our minds , cause we invented him
there are 10000000000000000000000000's worlds like ours
there are pictures to prove that , rovers on mars
and that is not a fiction btw

Of course, this statement is based on faith....
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Old 05-16-2004, 03:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader



Of course, this statement is based on faith....
Why do you think so NBC? I'm sure WinnieThePoo can proof this scientifically to us
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Old 05-16-2004, 03:36 PM   #10
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I suggest everyone here get the book "Rare Earth", it explains with a large amount of evidence why Earth might be one of a a tiny number of planets if not the only planet that has the conditions to sustain "Complex Lifeforms".

When you start to understand the Earth's physical history, you begin to understand how delicite and precise the conditions have to be for there to be "Complex Lifeforms".

Take Galaxy's for example. Most Galaxy's are eliptical and typically lack stars lack several things required for the formation of Solar Systems. In Spiral Galaxy's, only stars far from the center, but far from the edge as well are positioned and have the right elements for Solar System formation.

Then most solar systems have planets that do not follow a rotation that is circular and on the same plane. Most of the planets will have different rotations that create havoc for any of the planets closer to the star where complex life could be formed.

If any Solar System is to have complex life, it needs a Jupiter sized planet to clear out all the rocks left over from the solar systems planet formation period. Without such a Jupiter sized planet in a non-disruptive orbit, there would simply be to much havoc in order for complex life to form on the inner planets of the Solar System.

Most people don't realize how vital the Moon is to the existence of complex lifeforms here on earth. Without the Moon in its current position, you would not have the seasons and the Earth would likely be spinning with one of its poles always facing the sun. The Moon was formed early in the Earth's history from the collision with a smaller planet. The Moons' position relative to the Earth has been vital to the formation of "complex lifeforms here on Earth.

These are just a few of the things that show how amazing it is that "complex life" even exist on earth and why it is likely to be rare anywhere else in the Universe if it is there at all.

It probably does exist elsewhere, but it is a fraction of a fraction in the numbers that most people presume it to be. "Complex lifeforms" are very difficult to make and the idea that all it takes is water and some protein and boom a few million years later you have little people walking around is false. It takes far more than most people realize to get to that point. The difficulty in getting to that point helps one realize how truely rare and amazing the existence of "complex life" really is.
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Old 05-21-2004, 10:42 AM   #11
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Re: God is not to blame

Quote:
Originally posted by CrashedCarDriver
god create such PEOPLE remains one of the universe's biggest mysteries

I doubt it, the converse looks true to me



I am serious
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Old 05-21-2004, 11:11 AM   #12
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Just my personal thoughts, nothing more. Yes, science can explain many things. There are other things it can't. For me, God equals hope, and the strength to keep trying to pick my head up when life gets to be too much. I don't want science to try to explain away that feeling.
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Old 05-21-2004, 02:38 PM   #13
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I think this is regarding "The Evil Argument".

It is actually quite easy to explain.

There is even no need to resort to The Bible to answer this issue. The world itself answers it through an anecdote. (this is a story someone in my church told me when I posed a similar question

One day, a Christian man goes to the barber shop to get his hair cut. The barber is a questioning non-believer. He begins questioning his client about his beliefs and he says “Well, if God is so good, so perfect, so loving, why does he allow people to be bad?”

The Christian client was new in his faith and did not have the wisdom that can mostly come from reading The Bible consistently to answer this question. The Christian himself felt confused about the issue that the barber brought up. The barber finishes cutting his hair and seeing as though he had no more clients for the moment, they both walk out for a soda.

On the way to the vending machine, they see a hairy man walking alone. His beard was unshaven and his hair was long and his appearance did not look very appealing. After seeing this man, the Christian asks the barber “I wonder how can there be people that look like that in the world?” The barber thought this was a silly question and answered “That is quite simple, there are people who look like that because they don’t come to the barber.” The barber then understood why there is evil in the world.

I hope I explained it well. (english is my second language. )
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Old 05-21-2004, 03:07 PM   #14
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Your story assumes that only people who aren't Christian bring evil into the world. Picking up a history book, or taking a cursory glance at today's world political situation would quickly prove that statement inaccurate.
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Old 05-22-2004, 01:19 AM   #15
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Work with me here.
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