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Old 05-22-2004, 04:42 AM   #16
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In the bible it says return evil for evil to no one, it also says for you to love you enemy and hate what is bad, if God gives us these instructions, and we ignore them then who is to blame?

you can either apply these scriptures or you can ignore them and do what you want, but there will be consquences for those actions that includes those who claim they are christians,

but if you imagine God is up there and is ignoring all the evil that people claim to do in his name you are very wrong.. they are being judged even harder than those who are not he doesn't judge us by the fact we just claim we are a christian, but its how we live our lives on this earth and how we treat our fellow human beings while we are here

he set certain standards in the bible give us instructions on the best way to avoid hurting ourselves and our fellow humans (a fine example the ten commandments)
ignore these and you are ignoring God and the claim that you love him becomes hypocritical as many non believers can end up pointing out and bringing reproach on him which is why it says in the bible he who thinks he is standing.. beware

we have all sinned and fall short of the glory of god and we are all judged the same in Gods eyes

if you wish to discuss this this with me futher I would prefer you email me at annjane38@hotmail.com as I have found out it gets too confusing on the forums to address your replies
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Old 05-22-2004, 05:10 AM   #17
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Just my personal thoughts, nothing more. Yes, science can explain many things. There are other things it can't. For me, God equals hope, and the strength to keep trying to pick my head up when life gets to be too much. I don't want science to try to explain away that feeling.


right on.
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Old 05-22-2004, 05:12 AM   #18
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what LT said.

I guess its easy to think that way when you live up here in new england...but there is so much despair in the world .
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Old 05-23-2004, 09:26 PM   #19
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God is not respnsible for the pain we create.

He gave us free will. We are responsible.

Open your eyes and look what we make of the biggest present of all, Mother Nature can hardly breathe and love turns to hate.

I like Crashed Car Drivers post, simply bc it illustrates the fact that men are the worst race on this planet.
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Old 05-31-2004, 11:50 AM   #20
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I just got this as a FWD in my email:

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God let something like this happen?" (regarding the attacks on Sept. 11).
Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said "I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives.
And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?"
In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK.
Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school the Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.
Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.
Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves..
Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."
Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says.
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Old 05-31-2004, 12:19 PM   #21
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That's absolutely ridiculous. Ridiculous. Anne Graham makes those comments, assuming that her brand of evangelical Christianity will be the one introduced in schools and government, etc. But what would Anne Graham say if Roman Catholicism took over? What would Anne Graham say if Protestant students were forced to say the "Hail Mary" or pray the Rosary? What would Anne Graham say if Islam took over? It is one of the fastest growing religions in the United States, and, in some areas of the nation (I'm looking at you, Dearborn, MI), it is already predominantly Muslim.

But I should also say that I distrust e-mail forwards. There's a good chance that Jane Clayson didn't ask such an infantile question and there's a good chance that Anne Graham didn't make such ridiculous comments.

But I can find out for myself, thanks to the beauty of internet as well. This is what was really said:

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/wheregod.htm

Quote:
Jane Clayson: I've heard people say, those who are religious, those who are not, if God is good, how could God let this happen? To that, you say?

Anne Graham Lotz: I say God is also angry when he sees something like this. I would say also for several years now Americans in a sense have shaken their fist at God and said, God, we want you out of our schools, our government, our business, we want you out of our marketplace. And God, who is a gentleman, has just quietly backed out of our national and political life, our public life. Removing his hand of blessing and protection. We need to turn to God first of all and say, God, we're sorry we have treated you this way and we invite you now to come into our national life. We put our trust in you. We have our trust in God on our coins, we need to practice it.
I think it is utterly ridiculous. Completely, utterly ridiculous. We have one attack on U.S. soil over 63 years--139 years on the continental U.S.--and we act as if the sky is falling. Compared to many nations around the world, we are lucky. We are damn lucky. And what is our response? To make arrogant comments like the one above. For shame. Exploiting God in the face of national tragedy...if I were God, I would find that unforgivable. But it is probably for the best that I am not God.

Just as many people in 9/11 just died Haiti and the Dominican Republic in the last week. And do we, as an American public, mourn for them, just as we expected the entire world to do for us three years ago? No, we sit back glibly, just as self-absorbed as always. We have so many blessings everyday, and while it is unfortunate that events like 9/11 happen, we must not forget how damn lucky we have been and still are.

Here's the entire transcript of that interview, BTW:

http://www.cbsnews.com/earlyshow/hea...piritual.shtml

Her quote appears to have been taken out of context. She says, in effect, that those who expect God to give them "protection" cannot simultaneously reject God. But that is more of a personal issue, not an issue where conservative Christianity should be forced into a pluralistic nation like the United States.

Melon
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Old 05-31-2004, 12:42 PM   #22
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You make great points, melon. I hadn't commented on what I posted but I was curious to see what the people over at FYM would say about it.

Your posts always go against mine but somehow I still enjoy your opinions.
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Old 05-31-2004, 01:35 PM   #23
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Thanks for clearing it all up, melon.

I've read that e-mail many a time, too, and it irritates me to no end, because someone could be the most religious person in the world and yet still act like a total creep.

Angela
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Old 06-01-2004, 07:11 PM   #24
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I think whoever wrote the email somehow does have a point though...

*runs and ducks behind a rock*
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Old 06-01-2004, 07:16 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
I think whoever wrote the email somehow does have a point though...

*runs and ducks behind a rock*
I'd expect no different from you...on both accounts.

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Old 06-01-2004, 11:13 PM   #26
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Well, your argument against what the email says is that the religion that person embraces isn't the absolute one for everyone. However, there is no way you can prove that this person's theory for why everything is so messed up is wrong.
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Old 06-01-2004, 11:15 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
However, there is no way you can prove that this person's theory for why everything is so messed up is wrong.
There is no way that you can prove that there isn't an invisible leprechaun under my bed either, whom only I can see.

That's the absolute beauty of mythic speech; it is designed to be inarguable.

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Old 06-01-2004, 11:41 PM   #28
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But see a leprechaun is absolutely ridiculous.

A belief, a dogma, a way of life is much bigger than that. If you have not lived it then you cannot judge it.
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Old 06-01-2004, 11:56 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
But see a leprechaun is absolutely ridiculous.
Prove it.

Quote:
A belief, a dogma, a way of life is much bigger than that. If you have not lived it then you cannot judge it.
I would say that about people who condemn homosexuals. If you have not lived it, then you cannot judge it.

Melon
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Old 06-02-2004, 01:39 AM   #30
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Homosexuality is physical. God is a spiritual experience. Entirely differnt playing fields.
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