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Old 04-12-2002, 01:47 AM   #1
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God and Man/Man and God - Questions

Did mankind create God, or did God create mankind?

I mean, they told us that Adam and Eve--the whole Genesis story is nothing but myth to help people understand better. A story. So, somewhere down the line someone fabricated this myth to help people understand God.

So, if indeed the Genesis creation myth is just that--a myth, then how do we know that God did indeed create us? (I don't want blind faith answers). Where did God come in? Did someone just imagine him? How long ago did people realize there was a god?

I believe in God myself. We're studying evolution right now in Biology and I'm having trouble, well, distinguishing my beliefs. Part of me wants to say "Wow. Evolution. Must have happened. So much evidence. Maybe God created apes and then they evolved into man." --A sort of compromise between both worlds. But then, when did the apes begin believing in god? When their minds grew large enough? Did they just 'know' or did they make it up?
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Old 04-12-2002, 02:56 AM   #2
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I would have to say that logic certainly points toward man creating God.

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Old 04-12-2002, 08:56 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by zooropa16:
I would have to say that logic certainly points toward man creating God.
And I would say that logic points to the fact that nothing as complex as this universe and this planet, with its living breathing creatures, humans who can reason and think, rather than just act on instinct, could have just exploded from nothing without some creative designer behind it. Logic does not belong to the athiestic scientist on this one.


[This message has been edited by 80sU2isBest (edited 04-12-2002).]
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Old 04-12-2002, 09:41 AM   #4
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Old 04-12-2002, 09:55 AM   #5
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80s, we haven't even began to understand the complexity of nature, how would you know it needed a creative mind to start it?

Just because we don't understand certain things, doesn't mean those things would be imppossible to occur without a god at the wheel?

Besides, (the old boooring question) If god created everything, who created god??
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Old 04-12-2002, 10:02 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrTeeth:
80s, we haven't even began to understand the complexity of nature, how would you know it needed a creative mind to start it?
Besides, (the old boooring question) If god created everything, who created god??
you're right, nature is so complex that we haven't even been able to grasp it completely. Now, if it's possible that something that complex just happened, for no reason at all, explain it to me in a way that makes sense, without some creative force behind it. No one can offer up any plausible theory in which the universe just exploded from nothing and we all have this complexity - without creative design.
No one created God. He is the creator. God is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. Always has been, always will be.
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Old 04-12-2002, 12:43 PM   #7
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That is exacytly the point, in the early stages of human development, human curiosity needed explanation, so then God was the answer, the more we know the less God is the explanation, and this curiosity is the force to the develope of our species, if those humans would have only been content with the answer that God is the cause, we may still be living in caves, Greeks even before Christ were able to separate the values of their religion, I think this changes form country to country, and is true also that those ones that point as God as the creator will always have the point that HE is behind all logical and cientific discoveries, because its not likely that mankind will have all the answers ever.

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Old 04-12-2002, 01:01 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
you're right, nature is so complex that we haven't even been able to grasp it completely. Now, if it's possible that something that complex just happened, for no reason at all, explain it to me in a way that makes sense, without some creative force behind it. No one can offer up any plausible theory in which the universe just exploded from nothing and we all have this complexity - without creative design.
No one created God. He is the creator. God is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. Always has been, always will be.
Science has actually done a pretty good job of explaining how the universe was created ( the Big Bang) and what causes the complexity (or in many instances, the lack of complexity) of the universe including the origins of life and the evolution of man. Throughout history, man has struggled to understand the world he lives in. There was a need for a reason, hence the invention of God. Countless religions have dominated the world from time to time, from the Greek Mythological Gods, The Egyptians Sun God, Chrstianity, Islam, Buddism, Judiasm and others, and as man learned more about the universe and was able to support his discoveries with emperical evidence, the need for God was no longer as important. There is no God, believe me, I wish there was, but there isn't. If you take the Bible as fact, then where would Dinosaurs fit into the equation? Is the bible metaphorical? If so why? wouldn't the Supreme being, who is often betrayed as being so generous, want to make it hard for his people to understand his wishes. God was created because man feels a need to feel that he is important, that there is a reason for his existence, but there is no reason, Man is a product of 13 billion years of celestial evolution.

P.S. Please, no one take this as an attck on their beliefs, intelligence or sensibilites. Everyone has a right to their opinion, and to express it as they see fit.

P.P.S Why is always assumed that if there is a God, God is male? Further evidence that man created God.

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Old 04-12-2002, 01:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by zooropa16:
There is no God, believe me, I wish there was, but there isn't
Prove it. Go ahead, prove it.

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Old 04-12-2002, 01:32 PM   #10
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Yesterday I was kidnapped by little blue men and the flew me to Sirius B where I had a nice little BBQ with some hot chicks!!

You can't prove me wrong so it must be true!!!!!

Honestly, the "You can't prove something doesn't exist, so it has to exist" argument is not convincing anybody.

[This message has been edited by DrTeeth (edited 04-12-2002).]
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Old 04-12-2002, 01:40 PM   #11
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You should check out Sirius C...much better weather......4 suns together shining 37 hours a day!!!!!!

A bit more serious. You can't prove there is a God just as you can't prove there isn't any. For some the non-existance of a God seems quite illogical and unbelievable. For others (like me) the existance of a God seems quite illogical and unbelievable

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Old 04-12-2002, 01:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrTeeth:
Honestly, the "You can't prove something doesn't exist, so it has to exist" argument is not convincing anybody.
I don't think any argument in here will make a hardcore atheist a theist or vice versa

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[This message has been edited by Vorsprung (edited 04-12-2002).]
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Old 04-12-2002, 04:13 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrTeeth:
Yesterday I was kidnapped by little blue men and the flew me to Sirius B where I had a nice little BBQ with some hot chicks!!
You can't prove me wrong so it must be true!!!!!
Honestly, the "You can't prove something doesn't exist, so it has to exist" argument is not convincing anybody.
[This message has been edited by DrTeeth (edited 04-12-2002).]
Dr Teeth, do you recall how this argument started? I'll refresh your memory, my hostile and jumpy friend. In the second post in this thread, Zooropa16 said "I would have to say that logic certainly points toward man creating God". Now, he wasn't just stating his opinion, he was also saying "Logical people, like me, will tell you there is no God, so if you say there is one, you are not using logic". That sounds like an insult to me. So I responded by saying that in my opinion, Logic would tell you there IS a God. I am not setting out to prove God exists, but it seems that certain people in ths argument appear to think there is indeed some proof that God doesn't exist, but have yet to provide that proof.
By the way, while there may not be complete proof that God exists, there is plenty of scientific evidence that supports a person in his belief that God does exist. If you want me to, I'll start posting some of it.
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Old 04-12-2002, 07:32 PM   #14
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Sweetest Thing,

Your argument assumes one thing: that you must choose between fundamentalism and atheism; that is, that God exists as depicted in the Bible or not at all.

Genesis, I believe, is nothing more than a creation myth, which follows a similar pattern with other ancient civilizations of its time. Genesis, to me, is a reflection of how the people of then perceived God. In no way can we ultimately expect them, who are human just like us, to expect to have God down "perfectly."

However, from my own experiences and faith, I believe that God exists just the same. St. Thomas Aquinas, a prominent medieval Christian theologian, believed that science and God were totally compatible; that, through science, God presented Himself. Of course, if you read Aquinas' subsequent writings, he created science around a fundamentalist view of the Bible, but that is perfectly in keeping with 11th (?) century that he lived in.

Ultimately, through science, we have disproven much of the fundamentalist view of the Bible. I will certainly have my detractors on this statement, but, really, it is true. Does that ultimately mean that they've disproven God? Absolutely not. Science may have disproven creationism, etc., but who is to say that God just didn't create the world in a different manner?

In terms of the evolution/creationism debate, there is no conflict within the Catholic Church, which is my "official" Christian denomination (although I do have my own divergent beliefs). They not only teach, but encourage a belief in a "God-created evolution." So you should not have to choose between God and your brain.

As for when man began believing in higher powers, it is a mystery. There is evidence of such beliefs in all of recorded civilization.

Melon

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Old 04-13-2002, 12:06 AM   #15
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[This message has been edited by zooropa16 (edited 04-12-2002).]
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