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Old 09-23-2003, 04:10 PM   #16
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Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
but what if your religious beliefs see something, say homosexuality, as moraly wrong? should you not be allowed to practice it? should you be forced to admit gays into the church, and give them the same rights? wouldn't this then be encroaching on your own religious beliefs?
But what if my religious beliefs see something, say Protestantism, as morally wrong? Should you not be allowed to practice it? Should you be forced to grant equality to Protestants, when you deem it to be wrong? Wouldn't this be then encroaching on your own religious beliefs?

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secularism can not be the answer. if you preach religious freedom, how can you then say that a person in government is not allowed to base his decisions on his faith? is that not religious persecution by disallowing a person to follow his faith? on things like the budget, etc. someone of faith can make decisions without bringing religion into it. but when it comes down to those hot topics... abortion, same-sex marrige, etc.... a person of faith can't just set their beliefs aside, may he/she be a catholic, a jew, a muslim, or any other religion. should a person have to step down because he can't make a decision without leaning on his faith? and if so, wouldn't that be religious persecution?
You make such an argument, subconsciously assuming that your beliefs will always be the de-facto majority. But what if, someday, differing religious sentiments take over the U.S. and discriminate towards you?

After all, as I'm sure they'll say, a person should not have to step down, because he can't make a decision without leaning on his faith...and he says that as he steps all over your rights.

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I really don't know the answer to all this. america is a nation of conflicting interests, all pulling in opposite directions. it's a land where all men are created equal... but it is also a nation of religious freedom, and to be perfectly frank, all people are not created equal in the eyes of the various religions, not to mention the various sects and branches of religions.
Ta-da. That's why religion has no place in government. All men are created equal in our American tradition, which religion openly spits upon.

Melon
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Old 09-23-2003, 04:14 PM   #17
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Re: Re: Re: Re: God

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Bullshit. You have every right to believe anything under the sun, including that blacks are degenerate, women are nothing but baby ovens, and that leprechauns created the Earth. That doesn't mean that you can formulate laws that infringe on blacks' rights to freedom, women's rights to get jobs, and others' rights to believe that there are no such thing as leprechauns.

That still doesn't mean that you don't have a right to believe any of that, however.

Melon
The prior references were to an individual's freedom to religion, not government action.

Freedom to believe, as long as it stays in your own mind, is not freedom.
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Old 09-23-2003, 04:17 PM   #18
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: God

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Freedom to believe, as long as it stays in your own mind. Nice freedom.
Well, I'm sure it would be your worst nightmare if some of my beliefs were legislated. Think about that.

I'm disgusted that we're even having this conversation. I see that civics and government education has completely collapsed. I went to a religious school, for Christ's sake, and we were instilled with the idea that freedom does not mean using that freedom to infringe on others' freedoms.

But since America is truly on its path to being the Western form of Iran, I should not be so surprised.

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Old 09-23-2003, 04:19 PM   #19
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Sorry, I was clarifying my statement while you replied.
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Old 09-23-2003, 04:19 PM   #20
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: God

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Freedom to believe, as long as it stays in your own mind. Nice freedom.
There's a lot of room between staying in your mind and staying out of legislation.
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