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Old 03-05-2009, 09:59 AM   #121
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I disagree with a couple of points in that blog, but I'm not about to seize hold on one of them to refute the entire post, nor will I allow them to supplant the overall point, which I think is worth appreciating.

Also, it's just one person's opinion, which you're free to disagree with, but to retort with bunk and snarky comments contributes nothing valuable to the discussion.
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Old 03-05-2009, 10:03 AM   #122
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I disagree with a couple of points in that blog, but I'm not about to seize hold on one of them to refute the entire post, nor will I allow them to subplant the overall point, which I think is worth appreciating.
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Old 03-05-2009, 10:26 AM   #123
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I disagree with a couple of points in that blog, but I'm not about to seize hold on one of them to refute the entire post, nor will I allow them to supplant the overall point, which I think is worth appreciating.

Also, it's just one person's opinion, which you're free to disagree with, but to retort with bunk and snarky comments contributes nothing valuable to the discussion.
I guess I'm just sick and tired of hearing from AM talk radio, the privelaged, and others who really have no clue as to some people's lives(I'm not saying you're any of those) that anyone can pull themselves up from their boot straps the playing ground is level and anyone who doesn't or can't are just lazy bums looking for a handout.

It's an extremely short sighted view.

That paticular blog, though it's a great principle to have personally, just came off sounding extremely naive and incredibly snobbish at times.
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Old 03-05-2009, 10:30 AM   #124
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I guess I'm just sick and tired of hearing from AM talk radio, the privelaged, and others who really have no clue as to some people's lives(I'm not saying you're any of those) that anyone can pull themselves up from their boot straps the playing level is level and anyone who doesn't or can't are just lazy bums looking for a handout.

It's an extremely short sighted view.
This is how my brother in law is. He considers himself some kind of lower class, yet he owns a home, has a child who is well cared for, and makes enough so that his wife can stay home. I'm not saying he's rich so I look poor, not at all. I am quite content with my current circumstances. If he wants to complain about his life, that's one thing, but he's a total contradiction. He thinks the politicians on the right actually care about people like him. On one hand he wants all these hand outs and wants people to make his life easier, but on the other hand he doesn't think he should have to pay for them and that too many undeserving people get things they don't deserve. So which is it?
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Old 03-05-2009, 10:59 AM   #125
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I guess I'm just sick and tired of hearing from AM talk radio, the privelaged, and others who really have no clue as to some people's lives(I'm not saying you're any of those) that anyone can pull themselves up from their boot straps the playing ground is level and anyone who doesn't or can't are just lazy bums looking for a handout.

It's an extremely short sighted view.

That paticular blog, though it's a great principle to have personally, just came off sounding extremely naive and incredibly snobbish at times.
So are you suggesting that expanded government programs are the solution?
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Old 03-05-2009, 11:10 AM   #126
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So are you suggesting that expanded government programs are the solution?
I'm suggesting that doing nothing while sticking your head in sand and pretending everyone has the same opportunities will just further divide the country.

Demeaning all those that don't have the same opportunities as bums just looking for a handout makes you look like an ass.

But the real solution lies in a combination of government programs, better education, personal determination, and groups/mentors or individuals willing to see that those on government programs that have potential are find their way out of the programs.
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Old 03-05-2009, 11:55 AM   #127
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Well then please enlighten me oh wise one...
Let me try:

Quote:
BLANKLEY: Obama lied; the economy died
Big government is really his bag, but he doesn't own up to it
Tony Blankley
Tuesday, March 3, 2009


I am trying to capture the spirit of bipartisanship as practiced by the Democratic Party over the last eight years.

Thus, I have chosen as my lead, the proposition: Obama lied; the economy died. Obviously, I am borrowing this from the Democratic Party theme of 2003-08: "Bush lied, people died." There are, of course, two differences between the two slogans.

Most importantly, I chose to separate the two clauses with a semicolon rather than a comma because the rule of grammar is that a semicolon rather than a comma) should be used between closely related independent clauses not conjoined with a coordinating conjunction. In the age of Barack Obama, there is little more important than maintaining the integrity of our language - against the onslaught of Orwellian language abuse that is already a babbling brook, and will soon be a cataract of verbal deception.

The other difference is that George W. Bush didn't lie about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. He was merely mistaken. Whereas President Obama told a whopper last week when he claimed he was not for bigger government. As he said Tuesday night: "As soon as I took office, I asked this Congress to send me a recovery plan by President's Day that would put people back to work and put money in their pockets. Not because I believe in bigger government - I don't."

This he asserted though the budget he proposed the next day asks for federal spending as 28 percent of gross domestic product (GDP), higher by at least 6 percent than any time since World War II. Moreover, after 10 years, Mr. Obama's proposed spending as a percentage of GDP would still be 22.6 percent, nearly 2 percentage points higher than any year during the Bush administration, despite the full costs of the terrorist attacks of Sept, 11, 2001, the Iraq and Afghan wars and the rebuilding of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina.

Consider also his assertion in his not-quite-State of the Union address that:

"My administration has also begun to go line by line through the federal budget in order to eliminate wasteful and ineffective programs. As you can imagine, this is a process that will take some time. But we're starting with the biggest lines. We have already identified $2 trillion in savings over the next decade."

But, lamentably, a few days later, The Washington Post reported: "A senior administration official acknowledged yesterday that the budget does not contain $2 trillion in spending cuts over the next decade. Instead, the figure represents Obama's total efforts at deficit reduction, including tax hikes [of more than $1 trillion] on families making over $250,000 a year. It also includes hundreds of billions of dollars 'saved' by not continuing to spend $170 billion a year in Iraq."

Only a big government man would think of calling a trillion-dollar tax increase a spending cut or "saving." Technically, of course, it is true. A trillion-dollar tax increase will reduce spending by a trillion dollars for those private citizens who were taxed. And, from the perspective of the federal government, a trillion dollars taxed is a trillion dollars saved from the greed of the taxpayers who produced the wealth - and might well want to spend or invest it in non governmental activities.

But the foregoing are merely pettifogging numbers compared to Mr. Obama's bigger ideas about energy and health care.

Our president shares a fascinating idea about energy with most of what used to be known as the "small is beautiful" crowd. It is a curious phenomenon that one needs a very big government to enforce the beauty of small.

As Mr. Obama's energy secretary, Steven Chu, said last year: The price of electricity in America is "anomalously low." You see how much smarter that Nobel prize winner is than you. You probably thought you were already spending enough on electricity and fuel.

And sure enough, Mr. Obama explained last week that in order to make alternative energy sources wind, solar - perhaps eventually human muscle power? - economically competitive, he intends to raise the price of carbon-based energy until it is so expensive that even solar power will be such-a-deal.

This level of destructive irrationality cannot be accomplished in the private sector. It will take a very big government indeed to bring such inanities into being. (disclosure: being rational, I give professional advice to carbon-based energy producers.)

If President Obama were to try to misrepresent his positions for the next four years, there would be nothing he could say that would approach the inaccuracy of his claim last week that he is not for big government. It is the essence of the man and his presidency. He doesn't like America the way it has been since its founding - and it will take an abusively big government to realize his dreams of converting America into something quite different. If you don't know that, you don't yet know Barack Obama.
Wake me up when the stock market hits 4000.00.

<>
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Old 03-05-2009, 12:02 PM   #128
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That paticular blog, though it's a great principle to have personally, just came off sounding extremely naive and incredibly snobbish at times.
A college student being naive and snobbish...imagine that!!

I think you're laying a lot of baggage on that blog post that isn't really there. The notion of personal accountability is not a right or left, privileged vs non-privileged issue.

Lack of accountability and scapegoating seems to be pervasive throughout our entire society.

Mostly I'm tired of hearing that the last 8 years were all Bush's fault (or inherited from Clinton) or that current (and near future abysmal) failures are all Obama's fault (or inherited from Bush).

Who is holding them accountable?
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Old 03-05-2009, 12:21 PM   #129
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Vox, I understand what you're saying, but I can't fully agree. I do think the playing field is still uneven and opportunities are not available to everyone, but the disadvantaged aren't completely innocent. Most of the poor don't take advantage of the opportunities that are available. I mean, what's the dropout rate for black and Latinos?

People like my brother, a bank manager, believe people have more or less the same opportunities, because he's met and serviced thousands of poor people who have lifted themselves out of poverty. Even college students who, like he and even I, worked two, sometimes three jobs to pay for school, because their parents are financially unable to. He has all these success stories and examples, and looks at people who say they can't because of excuse A or excuse B, and says "why not you?"

As for my solution. I think, firstly, we have to eliminate the current school subject hierarchy, as we longer live in the 19th century. We have to offer the subjects that students really want to learn, and help them become whatever it is that they want to become, instead of imposing the belief that math and science are the most important subjects, while the arts are expendable (how many kids are told by their parents not to study music because they'll never be a musician, or don't do art, you'll never get a job as an artist)

We need to offer more school choices and the money should be attached to the student.

Currently, the US spends $40,000 a year for every family of four below the poverty line, yet they're no closer to being out of poverty. And all these government programs haven't lifted people out of poverty, it's created generation after generation of dependent people.

Instead, we should tell government to back off and allow there to be more benefit/mutual aid societies like these: Delancey Street Foundation - Home (who teach the homeless and the poor to be accountable for what they do or don't do, and helps them become self-depedent) or Habitat for Humanity Int'l

And help eliminate the need for this: Urban Poor Cope with Help from Informal Economy : NPR

I guess I'm a firm believer in that old Polish (I think) saying: If you want something badly enough, you'll make arrangements. If you don't want something badly enough, you'll make excuses.

But, er, yeah, I think my brain just fell out of my head.
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Old 03-05-2009, 12:49 PM   #130
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Wake me up when the stock market hits 4000.00.<>
You said that already, why are you still posting...
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Old 03-05-2009, 01:22 PM   #131
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Let me try:



Wake me up when the stock market hits 4000.00.

<>
Now you're just echoing yourself? It didn't even have anything to do with what we were talking about...
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Old 03-05-2009, 01:27 PM   #132
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I think you're laying a lot of baggage on that blog post that isn't really there. The notion of personal accountability is not a right or left, privileged vs non-privileged issue.
You're right on a personal level. But into today's political environment this is the right's national argument, and it doesn't work that way.

On a personal level I agree 100%.
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Old 03-05-2009, 01:32 PM   #133
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Vox, I understand what you're saying, but I can't fully agree. I do think the playing field is still uneven and opportunities are not available to everyone, but the disadvantaged aren't completely innocent. Most of the poor don't take advantage of the opportunities that are available. I mean, what's the dropout rate for black and Latinos?

People like my brother, a bank manager, believe people have more or less the same opportunities, because he's met and serviced thousands of poor people who have lifted themselves out of poverty. Even college students who, like he and even I, worked two, sometimes three jobs to pay for school, because their parents are financially unable to. He has all these success stories and examples, and looks at people who say they can't because of excuse A or excuse B, and says "why not you?"

As for my solution. I think, firstly, we have to eliminate the current school subject hierarchy, as we longer live in the 19th century. We have to offer the subjects that students really want to learn, and help them become whatever it is that they want to become, instead of imposing the belief that math and science are the most important subjects, while the arts are expendable (how many kids are told by their parents not to study music because they'll never be a musician, or don't do art, you'll never get a job as an artist)

We need to offer more school choices and the money should be attached to the student.

Currently, the US spends $40,000 a year for every family of four below the poverty line, yet they're no closer to being out of poverty. And all these government programs haven't lifted people out of poverty, it's created generation after generation of dependent people.

Instead, we should tell government to back off and allow there to be more benefit/mutual aid societies like these: Delancey Street Foundation - Home (who teach the homeless and the poor to be accountable for what they do or don't do, and helps them become self-depedent) or Habitat for Humanity Int'l

And help eliminate the need for this: Urban Poor Cope with Help from Informal Economy : NPR

I guess I'm a firm believer in that old Polish (I think) saying: If you want something badly enough, you'll make arrangements. If you don't want something badly enough, you'll make excuses.

But, er, yeah, I think my brain just fell out of my head.
Well I too understand what you are saying but don't agree entirely.

I agree, like I said earlier we need to find a way so that these programs don't create a cycle of poverty and dependency, but I don't think the answer is for the government to completely back away...
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Old 03-05-2009, 01:52 PM   #134
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If the government did such a good job, this discussion would not exist. Government does a horrible job of "helping" people. War on drugs, war on terror, war on porn, welfare, food stamps, public schools, public housing, etc.

Look at what HUD did to black communities.

Or look at what the Bureau of Indian Affairs have done. They've been issuing hand-outs for 100 years, and Indians are the poorest people in this country, with one of the lowest life expectancy in the world, with 80% unemployment.

And, as one of our founding fathers said, "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."

Not only is using taxpayer money on "objects of benevolence" wrong, but there's zero efficacy.

And during his SOTU address, Obama spoke nothing about governmental accountability. Instead, he reduced accountability to a punch line with, "Nobody messes with Joe."

But the biggest problem with Obama and his supporters is that they believe that our problems can be solved by government intervention, and I believe I've done a pretty good job of demonstrating that they don't, and private markets do: look at what Homeland Security has done for Katrina victims versus Habitat for Humanity.
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Old 03-05-2009, 02:00 PM   #135
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You said that already, why are you still posting...

im dozing in and out of conciousness..as the free markets are pillaged..
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