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Old 06-18-2009, 04:43 PM   #586
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^ Let's just call it a draw between those two networks.

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Old 06-18-2009, 05:01 PM   #587
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i think the point fundamentally stands.

"conservative" media is just that -- conservative. as it can be and as it should be if it wants to be.

"liberal" media is slim pickin's, perhaps that's due to market forces. i don't know. but to call, firstly, NPR or PBS (or even the Big 3 networks) "liberal" is plainly wrong, and to call MSNBC "liberal" is more accurate, but on a scale of 1-10, it's probably a 4 or a 5, whereas Fox is about a 7 or an 8 on the conservative scale.
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Old 06-18-2009, 11:51 PM   #588
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Why do some people still think Fox is actually a news service?
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Old 06-19-2009, 12:42 AM   #589
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Why do some people insist it isn't but have no problem with the way MSNBC runs its operation?
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Old 06-19-2009, 12:49 AM   #590
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MSNBC "liberal" is more accurate, but on a scale of 1-10, it's probably a 4 or a 5, whereas Fox is about a 7 or an 8 on the conservative scale.
What do you base this on?

There's no way the combined biases of Ed Shultz, Olbermann, Matthews, Maddow are less apparent than that of Beck, Hannity, O'Reilly, Van Susteren...

Again, there are far more liberals on Fox then conservatives on MSNBC. This cannot be disputed.
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Old 06-19-2009, 01:37 AM   #591
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She fell and broke her arm

Sure, every victim says, I fell, bumped into a door. etc.





Sotomayor fell? too



is someone under too much pressure and acting out ?

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Old 06-19-2009, 01:56 AM   #592
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More likely that Michelle had to regulate.
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Old 06-19-2009, 03:09 AM   #593
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Why do some people insist it isn't but have no problem with the way MSNBC runs its operation?
We don’t have MSNBC in Australia, just Fox and CNN (+ Sky & BBC) - so I have no idea. I have seen clips of Olbermann and yeah, he seems like a complete ass, but that’s all I know. I do know Fox is laughable though. It’s not a news channel. Yes, CNN is a shadow of it’s former self. BBC is still excellent. Sky is pretty good. Fox, it’s just not in the same category. At all.

You can’t compare, say, the BBC with Fox at all. They’re not doing the same thing, and Fox would be the first to admit that. It’s not actually a news channel! 24/7 opinion shows covering only 2 or 3 topics a day on every show, all day, every day, with the same 5 or 6 guests getting recycled through every show (seriously, there must be more potential 'outraged conservative' guests out there - why the same 5 or 6 ALL THE TIME?) all just trying to jam something, even if it doesn't fit at all, through that really tired left v right culture war, mixed with a bit of paranoia, hatred and fear... and that's it. I flick to the BBC or Sky and I'm getting on the ground, in depth reports from Iran. I flick to Fox and I get Sean Hannity screaming about something Obama hasn't said and about how Reagan would have said it for sure. Stupid. Not a news channel.
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Old 06-19-2009, 03:53 AM   #594
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What do you base this on?

There's no way the combined biases of Ed Shultz, Olbermann, Matthews, Maddow are less apparent than that of Beck, Hannity, O'Reilly, Van Susteren...

Again, there are far more liberals on Fox then conservatives on MSNBC. This cannot be disputed.
I would dispute that easily. "far more", that's inaccurate at best.

I think they are both biased, both void of credible journalists but both decidedly more entertaining than CNN, which is a true shit fest.

MSNBC has plenty of conservative analysts, and they have Joe Scarborough, which at least gives them 1 more 'opposite team' host than Fox has. If that's what you're interested in. I have no use for these myths that Bill-O or Olbermann like to throw out there. I'll give you my straight opinion on the subject. The more time progresses, the more they mirror each other.

You realize your disdain for MSNBC right now?
How could people not see the bias, right?
Well that's been Fox News for 13 years.
It mostly started on MSNBC in 2008 when they had to defeat Hillary.

"Combined biases"
If Hannity cancels out Maddow
And Olbie cancels out Bill-O
and Ed Schultz cancels out Beck
and Matthews cancels out Greta (who used to be quite fair)

then who cancels out the Conservative Report w/ Brett Baer?
With at times, no less than 4 conservatives at the table. 5 days a week.
Every week.

who cancels out Neil "watch out for socialism" Cavuto?

who cancels out the 'hilarious' hillbillies on Fox and Friends?
Joe Scarborough?
Joe isn't a 'Bushie' does that make him a liberal too?

MSNBC has taken a decided turn, for business purposes, to counter program Fox. (To answer your other question) I don't have a big issue with it until they start fraudulently claiming they are "fair and balanced".

This has always been my gripe with Fox. They want to be conservative?
Fine and dandy but stop fucking lying to my face, that's all I ask.
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Old 06-19-2009, 05:19 AM   #595
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Sotomayor fell? too
... tripped over her words perhaps ?
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Old 06-19-2009, 09:18 AM   #596
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What do you base this on?

There's no way the combined biases of Ed Shultz, Olbermann, Matthews, Maddow are less apparent than that of Beck, Hannity, O'Reilly, Van Susteren...

yes, i would say it is.

and you're misleading yourself if you think it's just about the infotainment prime time lineup. look at Fox's actual news coverage of events -- in addition to Fox and Friends, which is hilarious in it's know-nothing conservativism -- and that's where you see the clear bias come through. the bias lies not in whatever star each network has on at 8pm. rather, it's in the way in which issues are framed by the producers and read by the anchors that exhibits the bias.

take, for example, the NYT and the WSJ. you can clearly argue that the editorial page of the NYT is much more liberal than the conservative WSJ. however, when it comes to actual coverage of news, both papers do a very good job with general objectivity. neither are perfect, but both are outstanding news sources.



Quote:
Again, there are far more liberals on Fox then conservatives on MSNBC. This cannot be disputed.

this is precisely the issue. to you, and to the Fox News mindset, you're either a liberal or a conservative and you're supposed to fight.

i understand that conservatives seem to need this clear bifurcation of complex issues, but i don't think that's particularly healthy.
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Old 06-19-2009, 10:18 AM   #597
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MSNBC has plenty of conservative analysts, and they have Joe Scarborough, which at least gives them 1 more 'opposite team' host than Fox has. If that's what you're interested in.
Aside from him and Pat Buchanan, I can't think of other conservative-leaning people on that network. Fox has frequent guests Alan Colmes, Juan Williams, Bob Beckel, Ellis Henican, Mort Kondrake, Geraldo Rivera and hosts Shepard Smith and Greta all lean left.

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"Combined biases"
If Hannity cancels out Maddow
And Olbie cancels out Bill-O
and Ed Schultz cancels out Beck
and Matthews cancels out Greta (who used to be quite fair)
You can't make this comparison, though. O'Reilly has criticized both sides and been fair to Obama on mulitple instances. Olbermann doesn't do that. Beck has been very critical of Republicans recently. Maddow, Olbermann and Schultz are hardcore Democrats. They just are. I have never seen them attack a liberal or defend a conservative. Matthews is slightly more fair, but not much.

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then who cancels out the Conservative Report w/ Brett Baer?
With at times, no less than 4 conservatives at the table. 5 days a week.
Every week.
That's not true. Juan Williams, Mara Liasson and Mort Kondrake are regular panelists on that show.

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who cancels out Neil "watch out for socialism" Cavuto?
Cavuto has attacked the Bush administration constantly when it comes to spending.


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This has always been my gripe with Fox. They want to be conservative?
Fine and dandy but stop fucking lying to my face, that's all I ask.
Who cares what the slogan is? MSNBC is "the place for politics," but I could certainly argue that they specialize in presenting primarily liberal politics. CNN is "the best political team on television," and that's debatable also...
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Old 06-19-2009, 10:37 AM   #598
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Who cares? You overreacted to an off the cuff remark that you misinterpreted. You've become obsessed with this "state ran" media they are all out to get me bullshit.

What it comes down to is how they report the news. I couldn't care less how many liberal or conservative commentators they have on the network.
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Old 06-19-2009, 10:44 AM   #599
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Who cares? You overreacted to an off the cuff remark that you misinterpreted. You've become obsessed with this "state ran" media they are all out to get me bullshit.
How exactly did I misinterpret it?

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What it comes down to is how they report the news. I couldn't care less how many liberal or conservative commentators they have on the network.
It matters when those commentators affect the presenting of the news and the "sides" that are taken.
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Old 06-19-2009, 10:50 AM   #600
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How exactly did I misinterpret it?
Go back and read your posts, they're hilarious. He never once even came close to saying "the media is too hard on me" or "insisting he's treated unfairly".

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It matters when those commentators affect the presenting of the news and the "sides" that are taken.
Do you think O'Reilly or Obermann have any say in the actual news portion? Seriously?
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