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Old 05-11-2009, 05:45 PM   #391
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weak.

in May of 2008 -- a year ago -- that website has Iraqi deaths somewhere between 83 and 90,000. and you do know, of course, that estimate is likely exceedingly low because of how violence is measured in Iraq.

Casualties of the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 05-11-2009, 05:46 PM   #392
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You have to be kidding. Obama made a funny harmless joke about his kids using air force one. To somehow tie it into fearmongering, 911, tragedy, deaths, etc... is absolutely ridiculous. Dont we have better political things to talk about?


no. the GOP has no ideas. they're waiting on Carrie Prejean to run for office.
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Old 05-11-2009, 05:52 PM   #393
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Honest Americans and Christians prefer ketchup.
OK, you mean the American either or approach to things? Because in Germany the one doesn't exclude the other. A hamburger at McDonald's here contains mustard as well as ketchup.
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Old 05-11-2009, 05:55 PM   #394
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I would love to know what the GOP stands for now. Giving tax cuts to the top 5% simply makes the rich richer and the poor poorer and creates a smaller middle class which in turn ultimately hurts the prospect of achieving the american dream. Most people are employed by small businesses, and 90% of small businesses and their owners fall into the middle class tax bracket. Giving the middle class a large tax cut will provide more jobs, and give more money to the consumers. The rich depend on the middle class to buy their products, and even if the rich are taxed more they will still make money if the middle class is doing well because more people will be able to buy products offered by many large corporations. A rising tide lifts all boats. A progressive tax code with the middle class getting a large tax cut is the best tax code. the conservative argument saying that "I made all my money, and became rich, why should I have to pay more taxes?" is ridiculous. There is no such thing as a self-made man. Any person who became rich got there because of the system that the US government protects, they got rich because people bought their products, and they got rich because they live in America. Therefore, they owe that to the government for allowing them to live and work in a place where they could become rich. And hopefully those taxes should be used to help everyone... including the rich. By investing more in the middle class and investing into a better education system we are allowing for a more competitive free market economy. Education usually leads to more innovation and less people on welfare (which seems to be a large GOP issue even though they dont invest much in education) The main problem is the fact that government spends on useless stuff. If government cut back on spending on useless stuff and favors for lobbyist, then perhaps we would not need to pay as much as we currently do for taxes. (I however believe that Obama's spending bill was necessary, and it invested in smart things). Just wanted to put all of this out there to get the topic on to real issues and not this stupid Wanda Sykes controversy.

....
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Old 05-11-2009, 06:00 PM   #395
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say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, at least it's an ethos.
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Old 05-11-2009, 08:27 PM   #396
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say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, at least it's an ethos.
??

Who is this directed at?
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Old 05-11-2009, 10:40 PM   #397
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??

Who is this directed at?


it's a joke. a quote from ... who can name that movie?
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Old 05-11-2009, 11:03 PM   #398
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Let's see if Obama is interested in fulfilling one of his campaign promises, or if he'll be as much of a disappointment as the Clinton Administration:

Gay soldier: Don’t fire me – amFIX - CNN.com Blogs

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Open Letter to President Obama and Every Member of Congress:

I have learned many lessons in the ten years since I first raised my right hand at the United States Military Academy at West Point and committed to fighting for my country. The lessons of courage, integrity, honesty and selfless service are some of the most important.

At West Point, I recited the Cadet Prayer every Sunday. It taught us to “choose the harder right over the easier wrong” and to “never be content with a half truth when the whole can be won.” The Cadet Honor Code demanded truthfulness and honesty. It imposed a zero-tolerance policy against deception, or hiding behind comfort.

Following the Honor Code never bowed to comfortable timing or popularity. Honor and integrity are 24-hour values. That is why I refuse to lie about my identity.

I have personally served for a decade under Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell: an immoral law and policy that forces American soldiers to deceive and lie about their sexual orientation. Worse, it forces others to tolerate deception and lying. These values are completely opposed to anything I learned at West Point. Deception and lies poison a unit and cripple a fighting force.

As an infantry officer, an Iraq combat veteran and a West Point graduate with a degree in Arabic, I refuse to lie to my commanders. I refuse to lie to my peers. I refuse to lie to my subordinates. I demand honesty and courage from my soldiers. They should demand the same from me.

I am committed to applying the leadership lessons I learned at West Point. With 60 other LGBT West Point graduates, I helped form our organization, Knights Out, to fight for the repeal of this discriminatory law and educate cadets and soldiers after the repeal occurs. When I receive emails from deployed soldiers and veterans who feel isolated, alone, and even suicidal because the torment of rejection and discrimination, I remember my leadership training: soldiers cannot feel alone, especially in combat. Leaders must reach out. They can never diminish the fighting spirit of a soldier by tolerating discrimination and isolation. Leaders respect the honor of service. Respecting each soldier’s service is my personal promise.

The Department of the Army sent a letter discharging me on April 23rd. I will not lie to you; the letter is a slap in the face. It is a slap in the face to me. It is a slap in the face to my soldiers, peers and leaders who have demonstrated that an infantry unit can be professional enough to accept diversity, to accept capable leaders, to accept skilled soldiers.

My subordinates know I’m gay. They don’t care. They are professional.

Further, they are respectable infantrymen who work as a team. Many told me that they respect me even more because I trusted them enough to let them know the truth. Trust is the foundation of unit cohesion.

After I publicly announced that I am gay, I reported for training and led rifle marksmanship. I ordered hundreds of soldiers to fire live rounds and qualify on their weapons. I qualified on my own weapon. I showered after training and slept in an open bay with 40 other infantrymen. I cannot understand the claim that I “negatively affected good order and discipline in the New York Army National Guard.” I refuse to accept this statement as true.

As an infantry officer, I am not accustomed to begging. But I beg you today: Do not fire me. Do not fire me because my soldiers are more than a unit or a fighting force – we are a family and we support each other. We should not learn that honesty and courage leads to punishment and insult. Their professionalism should not be rewarded with losing their leader. I understand if you must fire me, but please do not discredit and insult my soldiers for their professionalism.

When I was commissioned I was told that I serve at the pleasure of the President. I hope I have not displeased anyone by my honesty. I love my job. I want to deploy and continue to serve with the unit I respect and admire. I want to continue to serve our country because of everything it stands for.

Please do not wait to repeal Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. Please do not fire me.

Very Respectfully,

Daniel W. Choi
1LT, IN
New York Army National Guard
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Old 05-11-2009, 11:11 PM   #399
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Let's see if Obama is interested in fulfilling one of his campaign promises, or if he'll be as much of a disappointment as the Clinton Administration:

Gay soldier: Don’t fire me – amFIX - CNN.com Blogs

I saw he sent a hand written apology to another discharged soldier. You'd think that was something that could have been fixed immediately, even under Bush.
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:15 PM   #400
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non-existent, fabricated WMDs that were used as the very basis of an invasion that caused the death of thousands of americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.

that, my friend, crosses the line.
No one fabricated Saddam's production and use of WMD while he was in power in Baghdad. Its a fact that he used WMD more times than any leader in the past half century and that he failed to comply with obligations he was forced to meet under the 1991 Gulf War Ceacefire agreement in relation to the dismantlement of all WMD weapons, production facilities and activities. Its a fact that after Saddam was removed, facilities related to the production of WMD were found that were in violation of the resolutions and the ceacefire agreement.

This is not something that was created or cooked up by the Bush administration as so many liberals naively believe.

"The hard fact is, that so long as Saddam remains in power, he threatens the well being of his people, the peace of his region, the security of the world. The best way to end that THREAT, once and for all, is with a new Iraqi government. A government ready to live in peace with its neighbors."

"Heavy as they are, the costs of action must be weighed against the price of inaction. If Saddam defies the world and we fail to respond, we will face a far greater threat in the future. Saddam will strike again at his neighbors. He will make war on his own people."

"And mark my words, he will develop weapons of mass destruction. He will deploy them, and he will use them."

President Bill Clinton - December 16, 1998
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:29 PM   #401
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weak.

in May of 2008 -- a year ago -- that website has Iraqi deaths somewhere between 83 and 90,000. and you do know, of course, that estimate is likely exceedingly low because of how violence is measured in Iraq.

Casualties of the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A survey of a small sample of people is not an accurate way to determine who has actually been killed in a war. By the way, where is the Lancet survey or Opinion Research Business Survey for the war in Afghanistan?

What would be the cost to the Iraqi people, as well as the region, of leaving Saddam in power in 2003 as so many liberals wanted to do?
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:57 PM   #402
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I saw he sent a hand written apology to another discharged soldier. You'd think that was something that could have been fixed immediately, even under Bush.


i agree.

so far, Obama has been disappointing on BGLT issues.
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:59 PM   #403
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No one fabricated Saddam's production and use of WMD while he was in power in Baghdad. Its a fact that he used WMD more times than any leader in the past half century and that he failed to comply with obligations he was forced to meet under the 1991 Gulf War Ceacefire agreement in relation to the dismantlement of all WMD weapons, production facilities and activities. Its a fact that after Saddam was removed, facilities related to the production of WMD were found that were in violation of the resolutions and the ceacefire agreement.

This is not something that was created or cooked up by the Bush administration as so many liberals naively believe.

"The hard fact is, that so long as Saddam remains in power, he threatens the well being of his people, the peace of his region, the security of the world. The best way to end that THREAT, once and for all, is with a new Iraqi government. A government ready to live in peace with its neighbors."

"Heavy as they are, the costs of action must be weighed against the price of inaction. If Saddam defies the world and we fail to respond, we will face a far greater threat in the future. Saddam will strike again at his neighbors. He will make war on his own people."

"And mark my words, he will develop weapons of mass destruction. He will deploy them, and he will use them."

President Bill Clinton - December 16, 1998





clearly, this was such a compelling justification for war, and so convincing, and so accurate, that the administration felt as if needed no other justification for the invasion and did not feel as if it needed to torture detainees so they would spit out "information" about the non-existent relationship between Saddam and Al-Qaeda.

because that's what they did. let's not fool ourselves. torture became a policy in order for Cheney to dig up more "information" so he could justify to the American public the invasion of Iraq.
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Old 05-13-2009, 05:12 PM   #404
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i agree.

so far, Obama has been disappointing on BGLT issues.
political considerations are pathetic, but necessary.


I do expect him to correct this before he leaves office, perhaps after the Nov 2010 elections


my reasoning may not be good, his mandate may be at its largest now, 2010 could leave him weaker going into 2012

I just believe human rights are mostly going the right direction, and less political capital will be required as time goes on.

I know this sounds like I am saying who cares if you have to stand or sit at the back of the bus,
soon enough all seats will be open to you.
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Old 05-13-2009, 05:19 PM   #405
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The Iraq thing is something that Clinton wouldn't have minded having justification for, 9/11 was plenty, we were going back in one way or another. Torture has nothing to do with how we got to Iraq.
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