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Old 04-09-2003, 12:36 PM   #31
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and how do you think Africa should be "stabalized"?
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Old 04-09-2003, 12:40 PM   #32
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the war against Iraq IMO opinion was justified because of Iraq not following up on UN resolutions and because the UN failed to come to another (perhaps better) solution than war (and I blame Europe even more than the US for this happening)

it doesn't even matter much to do what the exact reasons are why Bush has decided to do something about Saddam and not go after every dictator in the world (though I think evidence shows that no other leader has been a thread to other countries more than Saddam)
because you won't rid the world of all evil it isn't bad when you at least do something about some of it

I do believe the people of Iraq rejoice being rid of Saddam
and I do believe that they are thrilled that they didn't have to wait another year/5 years/10 years for it to happen
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Old 04-09-2003, 01:34 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
The suggestion that Bush has personal gain from invading Iraq is unsupportable.
One word: OIL

More specifically, Halliburton and Texas oilmen. Bush will have to go somewhere after he leaves DC [hopefully in Jan 2005] and it will be straight into the arms of his papa and his old oil cronies in Texas.
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Old 04-09-2003, 01:41 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by YellowKite


One word: OIL

More specifically, Halliburton and Texas oilmen. Bush will have to go somewhere after he leaves DC [hopefully in Jan 2005] and it will be straight into the arms of his papa and his old oil cronies in Texas.
Try again.

It would be far easier to open Alaska to drilling than to invade another country, which supplies little oil to the US.

The oil argument is speculative at best, coming from a pool of thin generalizations.
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Old 04-09-2003, 01:54 PM   #35
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War is bad and all but look at the other evidence. Saddam Hussein supports terrorism, genocide, ethnic cleansing. In northern Iraq, military officials found al Qaeda literature and a passenger plane fuselage used to train terrorists. The government repeatedly ignored UN requests to disarm. Hans Blix said the weapons inspectors were being impeded by Iraq and Iraq would never comply with UN requests.

I suggest you read this Salon article to understand what is going on there. The New Yorker also has some good articles about what is going on in Baghdad right now.

http://salon.com/news/feature/2003/0...had/index.html
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Old 04-09-2003, 01:58 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Try again.

It would be far easier to open Alaska to drilling than to invade another country, which supplies little oil to the US.
Currently Iraq supplies little oil to the United States, however Iraq has the second largest oil reserves in the world (I believe Saudi Arabia has the largest) and having control of those reserves would clearly be extremely beneficial to the United States given that its energy requirements continue to increase.

The argument that oil was a motivation for the US in this war isn't just that the US wants access to the oil (ie to trade with Iraq) it's that it wants control of the oil reserves so it can decide who gains access to them.
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Old 04-09-2003, 02:11 PM   #37
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Sounds like a colorful scheme - a little out of synch with a country that promotes free trade. The argument was for Bush's personal gain. So, I say, try again.
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Old 04-09-2003, 02:17 PM   #38
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these folks have been planted there by the Bush Administration!
You are insulting the Bush administration.

Fact is, we dont know the truth about that - after all we werent there.
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Old 04-09-2003, 02:22 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Sounds like a colorful scheme - a little out of synch with a country that promotes free trade. The argument was for Bush's personal gain. So, I say, try again.
Steel tariffs also sound a little out of synch for a country that promotes free trade, and yet remember the arguments last year regarding the US and steel tariffs?

And I never claimed the war was fought for Bush's personal gain, I was just responding to your comment about oil drilling in Alaska.
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Old 04-09-2003, 02:34 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salome
the war against Iraq IMO opinion was justified because of Iraq not following up on UN resolutions and because the UN failed to come to another (perhaps better) solution than war (and I blame Europe even more than the US for this happening)

it doesn't even matter much to do what the exact reasons are why Bush has decided to do something about Saddam and not go after every dictator in the world (though I think evidence shows that no other leader has been a thread to other countries more than Saddam)
because you won't rid the world of all evil it isn't bad when you at least do something about some of it

I do believe the people of Iraq rejoice being rid of Saddam
and I do believe that they are thrilled that they didn't have to wait another year/5 years/10 years for it to happen
well said salome.


seeing the iraqis celebrate today has been one of the most amazing things i've ever seen. it's pure joy.
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Old 04-09-2003, 02:34 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Try again.

It would be far easier to open Alaska to drilling than to invade another country, which supplies little oil to the US.

The oil argument is speculative at best, coming from a pool of thin generalizations.
No way are Alaskans going to allow some Texan to come in and leave with their resources and profits. I lived in AK and they have a saying "Why do Texans resent Alaska? Because they have more land, more oil, more gold and less people to put up with."

And because it is closer to home Americans are going to be more vocal about the pillaging of one of our most beautiful, remaining natural landscapes than the total destruction of a foreign land.

And how little oil do you think we are talking about?

From Reuters:
The United States consumption of Iraqi crude increased by 24 percent in January, even as the Bush administration gears up for a war it says is not about Baghdad's oil.

The U.S. share of official Iraqi crude exports in the U.N.-monitored oil-for-food program has risen to 67 percent, from 58 percent of Iraq's crude shipped in December.

Stronger U.S. buying has helped push Iraq's official oil exports in January up to 1.7 million bpd, up from the 2002 annual average of about 1.25 million bpd.


Currently the North Slope of AK account for approx. 1 million barrels of crude oil a day and it is on a downward slope of production. [World Resource Institute]

Iraq's daily production averaged 2.5 million barrels in February. The United States tends to be the biggest importer of Iraqi crude, buying 366,000 barrels a day during December 2002. Iraq was the seventh-biggest supplier of U.S. crude imports that month. [U.S. Energy Information Administration.]

And that was under the oil exchange programs run by the UN - now that Bush and buddies are establishing Halliburton [and other US oil interests are sure to follow] along with the fact that Iraq has one of the most abundant oil reerves in the world? It's all good in their eyes. I bet they can taste the money as we speak.

Bush and Co. are looking to line their pockets and line the pockets of the people whose money got them into the White House in the first place.
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Old 04-09-2003, 02:56 PM   #42
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Sorry but your oil argument doesn't hold water. So we get some oil from Iraq. We also get oil from Nigeria, which is in Africa. Wasn't someone in this thread bitching and moaning earlier about why we don't go in to Africa? And we had to increase our oil supply from Iraq because there was a shortage from Venezuela due to a strike there.

And if I recall correctly, Halliburton has been cut from the running for the Iraqi rebuilding process.
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Old 04-09-2003, 03:05 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by sharky
Sorry but your oil argument doesn't hold water. So we get some oil from Iraq. We also get oil from Nigeria, which is in Africa. Wasn't someone in this thread bitching and moaning earlier about why we don't go in to Africa? And we had to increase our oil supply from Iraq because there was a shortage from Venezuela due to a strike there.

And if I recall correctly, Halliburton has been cut from the running for the Iraqi rebuilding process.
The point isn't that the US gets "some oil from Iraq" it's that Iraq has the second largest oil reserves in the world. It's not about how much the US trades with Iraq but how much oil Iraq actually posesses. Nigeria does have quite significant oil reserves, but nowhere near the amount that Iraq has.
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Old 04-09-2003, 03:07 PM   #44
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Sorry, I forgot to also reply to your comment about Halliburton. While I realise that control of oil obviously brings benefits to certain oil companies (such as Halliburton) I think the larger point is that the whole of the US economy is entirely dependent on oil. It's not only about benefitting one specific company.
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Old 04-09-2003, 03:13 PM   #45
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according to my brother-in-law, who is the chief correspondent for bloomberg news in the middle - east, there are only a few hundred people chanting in the streets (not as many as CNN tries to portray). but it is no surprise to him that CNN has exaggerated yet another report. he also has the feeling that most of the paraders are paid off by the americans. He says that most people are too scared to do anything and nobody wants the americans around. Most people he talks to say that they don't want saddam but they don't want the americans to come and take their oil.
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