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Old 06-11-2007, 11:28 AM   #1
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Global Warming Crisis: Dissidents on the Left

http://www.counterpunch.com/cockburn06092007.html

Lots of good stuff from a most unexpected source. I encourage those of you interested in the topic to read it.

But I do like this:

Quote:
"There are hundreds of reasons--political, pragmatic and economic, health and environmental--for cleaning up our environment, for conservation of energy, for developing alternate fuels, cleaning up our nuclear program, etc.

Global warming is not one of them."
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Old 06-11-2007, 02:27 PM   #2
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Re: Global Warming Crisis: Dissidents on the Left

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Originally posted by INDY500
from a most unexpected source.
Is that because they usually support all the other Marxist movement?
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Old 06-11-2007, 07:56 PM   #3
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Re: Re: Global Warming Crisis: Dissidents on the Left

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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Is that because they usually support all the other Marxist movement?
They say as much in the first paragraph:
Quote:
The claque endorsing what is now dignified as "the mainstream theory" of global warming stretches all the way from radical greens through Al Gore to George W. Bush, who signed on at the end of May. The left has been swept along, entranced by the allure of weather as revolutionary agent, naïvely conceiving of global warming as a crisis that will force radical social changes on capitalism by the weight of the global emergency.
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Old 06-11-2007, 09:06 PM   #4
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Re: Re: Re: Global Warming Crisis: Dissidents on the Left

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Originally posted by INDY500


They say as much in the first paragraph:
Um, yeah you missed my point.
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Old 06-12-2007, 08:56 AM   #5
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Global Warming Crisis: Dissidents on the Left

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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Um, yeah you missed my point.
That's secondary anyway, even Marxists, I suppose, have the right to be concerned about the environment.

But did you take anything away from the article after reading what the scientists had to say?
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Old 06-12-2007, 08:59 AM   #6
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Global Warming Crisis: Dissidents on the Left

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Originally posted by INDY500


But did you take anything away from the article after reading what the scientists had to say?
Yeah, that they are in the minority of the scientific populace. You'll always find those in the science community...
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Old 06-13-2007, 05:18 PM   #7
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I don't know if this is the right thread for this or not. I've been thinking about starting a seperate thread but I don't want to duplicate what others are already discussing.

I have a couple of questions about global warming. They are sincere questions. . .I'm not trying to stir things up or anything. And I'm looking for sincere answers.

What exactly is the big deal with global warming? I mean I understand the need to cut down on the negative "footprint" we leave on the planet. . .that's just common sense. . .but is imminent catastrophe really looming because of global warming? I understand about sea levels rising and all that, but won't that happen over a long period of time and won't people just adjust, i.e. move away from coastal areas or even abandon outright some places (like the little island I live on) gradually? Hasn't the earth's climate changed several times over history and wouldn't we expect that to continue? Might the fight to stop global warming actually be a futile fight to maintain the status quo?

Also I've heard it said that even if we went to zero carbon emissions now, global warming is basically irreversible now and we'd still see the results. Should the focus then be more on adaptation rather than trying to somehow stop global warming?

Finally, doesn't it seem like the most practical way to slow humanity's impact on the planet would be to return to a kind of hunter/gatherer type of lifestyle that is much more low impact? Is it possible to live a "modern" lifestyle and enjoy it's benefits without the attentandant negative effects to the planet?

I guess I ask these questions because sometimes this issue seems entirely politicized with the global warming mockers on the right and the alarmists on the left. And in my experience when things get politicized, reason often gets left out.

so any thoughts?
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Old 06-13-2007, 06:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean


What exactly is the big deal with global warming? is imminent catastrophe really looming because of global warming?

I feel the same way, here. I'm tired of people calling global warming a "national security issue" when it isnt. Millions of people (including criminals) crossing the southern border is a threat to my security. Radical islamists who want to kill me are a threat to my security. The earth's temperature rising half a degree is not.

Havent people been trying to cut back on carbon emissions since the '70s? Apparently not much is working, so why continue talking about it? Weren't we in fear of another ice age 30 years ago?

Dennis Miller made a good point the other night. Some people who believe in this global warming "emergency" also believe in evolution. So why not just believe that the earth's climate is evolving?

But hey, as long as it keeps Algore busy and not running for office, he can blather all he wants.
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Old 06-13-2007, 07:12 PM   #9
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Originally posted by 2861U2


Havent people been trying to cut back on carbon emissions since the '70s? Apparently not much is working, so why continue talking about it?
You're kidding right?
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Old 06-13-2007, 07:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


You're kidding right?
correction: 1980s.
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Old 06-13-2007, 07:18 PM   #11
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Even then, your logic is, well you can't get people to do anything so give up?

Then let's give up on the war as well!
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Old 06-13-2007, 07:49 PM   #12
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This was in this month's Limbaugh Letter. I'm sure I'll take hell for posting this, but I cant resist, it's too funny:

***************

Here's yet another innocent activity the environmental wackos want you to feel guilty about: eating, because it (surprise, surprise) causes global warming.
Yes, according to Helene York, director of "socially conscious" Bon Appetit Management Company Foundation: "Food- and all the energy it takes to make it- is one of the largest human activities contributing to global warming." Like, for example, bananas, which travel thousands of miles in high-speed refrigerated ships to reach your planet-destroying breakfast plate. Bad.
As Ms. York explained to CNSNEWS.com: "The average American creates 2.8 tons of co2 emissions each year by eating, even more than 2.2 tons generated by driving."
So her organization "will encourage chefs and diners to think about how their food choices could help ease the climate crisis."
I'll pass.

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Old 06-13-2007, 07:51 PM   #13
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Well when you eat as much as him it may be a concern...
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Old 06-13-2007, 08:26 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2
This was in this month's Limbaugh Letter. I'm sure I'll take hell for posting this, but I cant resist, it's too funny:

***************

Here's yet another innocent activity the environmental wackos want you to feel guilty about: eating, because it (surprise, surprise) causes global warming.
Yes, according to Helene York, director of "socially conscious" Bon Appetit Management Company Foundation: "Food- and all the energy it takes to make it- is one of the largest human activities contributing to global warming." Like, for example, bananas, which travel thousands of miles in high-speed refrigerated ships to reach your planet-destroying breakfast plate. Bad.
As Ms. York explained to CNSNEWS.com: "The average American creates 2.8 tons of co2 emissions each year by eating, even more than 2.2 tons generated by driving."
So her organization "will encourage chefs and diners to think about how their food choices could help ease the climate crisis."
I'll pass.

This isn't particularly helpful. That's what a lot of this discussion comes across to me--a lot of mocking on the Right and alarmism on the left. I'm not hearing much that makes sense to me.
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Old 06-13-2007, 08:35 PM   #15
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I think it comes down to this, the right has never given a shit about the environment and the left has always had the foresight to take care of it, but that brings us to a standstill. A tug o war... There really haven't been that many significant changes in how we approach our environment so I think the left has stepped up by exaggerating the timeline of the emergency in order to try and pull ourselves out of this standstill we're in.
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