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Old 06-13-2007, 10:23 PM   #16
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I think it comes down to this, the right has never given a shit about the environment and the left has always had the foresight to take care of it, but that brings us to a standstill. A tug o war... There really haven't been that many significant changes in how we approach our environment so I think the left has stepped up by exaggerating the timeline of the emergency in order to try and pull ourselves out of this standstill we're in.
While I agree with the first statement--that the right has never cared for the environment, I don't think that should justify exaggerating the facts on the left.

I want to know what's truly at stake here and what can/should be done to change it, hyperbole and exaggeration aside. If Manhattan ends up under 20 feet of water, but it happens gradually over the next say 500 years, is that really truly a crisis?
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Old 06-13-2007, 10:25 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I think it comes down to this, the right has never given a shit about the environment and the left has always had the foresight to take care of it, but that brings us to a standstill. A tug o war... There really haven't been that many significant changes in how we approach our environment so I think the left has stepped up by exaggerating the timeline of the emergency in order to try and pull ourselves out of this standstill we're in.
Yes, by supporting the building of new nuclear power plants over the last few decades. The green movement is political and has various agendas, I don't think that it is paranoid to point that out. When the mainstream parties catch on to some of their policies their working some angle for their benefit.
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Old 06-14-2007, 05:07 AM   #18
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Ugh can we maybe just forget about global warming as a reason for helping the environment (even though I do consider it a problem).......fossil fuels will go soon enough, best reason among many to go renewable, as well as not having to rely on the Russians for gas in Europe or the Saudis for oil.

We are never going to get a consensus between every country, too many people are just too self-interested.

Even if global warming is not our fault, it makes sense to at least prepare for the consequences of it eg water wars, increased famines, desert size increasing=less inhabitable land.

If none of this makes any sense to at least make it a very high priority if not a top one, then we're just making trouble for ourselves in the future.
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Old 06-14-2007, 08:10 AM   #19
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Another question:

Will it be possible for the entire world's population to reach what the Western world generally considers a "normal" standard of living without having a dramatic impact on the earth's climate, even with taking steps to reduce our carbon output (but still maintaining what could be considered a "modern" lifestyle)? Is the "modern" lifestyle sustainable (albeit with changes here and there to reduce the carbon footprint) for "everyone" or only if it's limited to the lucky few?

And if it's not possible for everyone to live a modern western lifestyle than what should be the goal. . .should we all take a decrease in standard of living so everyone can raise their standard X degrees or do we just passively accept that some people are lucky enough to live a modern life and the rest should be just thankful if they're not living in extreme, life-threatening poverty?
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Old 06-14-2007, 08:31 AM   #20
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I don't think there will ever be a standardised western form of living throughout the world, it wouldn't be sustainable as we go about it now.

It would be pompous and arrogant in the extreme to tell other developing countries you must stop industrialising so much to prevent global warming, so we can maintain our own standards of living. China isn't actually doing too bad on the green front as such, it's seeing some bad effects from global warming such as increased desertification, they see a problem in it.

Not everyone can live the modern lifestyle anyway, there will always be the poor of one kind or other, it just wouldn't be possible really, unless robots take over most of the manual work in the world, but you would probably end up with a massive disenfranchised unemployed underclass of people, bit sci-fi but who knows

Honestly, I don't think global warming can be averted, i'm starting to see it as some sort of negative feedback mechanism to reduce the human population. As a whole we really aren't that great on working together to sort things out.
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Old 06-15-2007, 02:49 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean
Another question:

Will it be possible for the entire world's population to reach what the Western world generally considers a "normal" standard of living without having a dramatic impact on the earth's climate, even with taking steps to reduce our carbon output (but still maintaining what could be considered a "modern" lifestyle)? Is the "modern" lifestyle sustainable (albeit with changes here and there to reduce the carbon footprint) for "everyone" or only if it's limited to the lucky few?

And if it's not possible for everyone to live a modern western lifestyle than what should be the goal. . .should we all take a decrease in standard of living so everyone can raise their standard X degrees or do we just passively accept that some people are lucky enough to live a modern life and the rest should be just thankful if they're not living in extreme, life-threatening poverty?
If we developed means of energy production that were both sustainable and economically viable; but then we would suffer the negative effects of running out of rare metals - which natually lends to economically viable meteorite mining and space travel
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Old 06-15-2007, 06:04 AM   #22
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So we have two choices, the planet becomes a bit like Tatooine, or we start space mining...win win I say
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Old 06-19-2007, 12:01 AM   #23
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If global warming is as bad as they say it is the Earth won't be like Tatooine (although it would be cool to have aliens and space ships around here). I think they're afraid it will either become more like Hoth or Mon Calamari.

Wow I'm a nerd.

We'll either have a new ice age or our planet will have way more water and plant life, according to them.
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Old 06-19-2007, 01:54 PM   #24
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Today's Dilbert was pretty funny.

If you havent seen it - http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/di...1101070619.gif
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Old 06-19-2007, 05:51 PM   #25
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Originally posted by maycocksean


What exactly is the big deal with global warming?
I recommend reading The Weathermakers by Tim Flannery http://www.theweathermakers.com/ and the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report issued earlier this year http://www.ipcc.ch/. The changes predicted even by midcentury are dramatic and extremely alarming. We're not talking about 500 years from now. We're talking this century. I really don't want to argue with 2500 scientists and 6000 studies. If that's not enough information to go on, nothing will be.
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Old 06-19-2007, 05:57 PM   #26
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I recommend reading The Weathermakers by Tim Flannery http://www.theweathermakers.com/ and the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report issued earlier this year http://www.ipcc.ch/. The changes predicted even by midcentury are dramatic and extremely alarming. We're not talking about 500 years from now. We're talking this century. I really don't want to argue with 2500 scientists and 6000 studies. If that's not enough information to go on, nothing will be.
That's the kind of information I'm looking for. I would definitely consider mid-century as a crisis. It could be the end of where I live!

I guess the next question would be what needs to be done right away to prevent further change, or slow it's progress and what is beyond our ability to control and thus to what extent do we need to be looking at adaptaptive strategies. . .like evacuating my island
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