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Old 02-22-2008, 02:28 PM   #1
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Give a legitimate argument for Obama

This, obviously, is similar to the other thread.

I want all you Obama supporters to discuss issues and why you support Obama.

The rules: No mentioning "change" or "hope" or "experience doesn't mean judgment" or "McCain is old."

Talk about issues.

What I don't want in this campaign is for the Obama people to be complaining and wanting McCain to talk about issues, while their candidate gets away with just talking about "change" and "hope." I'm not saying that's going to happen, but I have a feeling.

I mean, who cares about ideas and issues when you can have HOPE?!

Go.
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:43 PM   #2
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He understands our healthcare sucks and is screwing over the poor.

He understands the importance of diplomacy and not an attack first mentality.

He understands the importance of reducing our dependence on oil.

He wants to make marriage and civil unions completely equal.

Just a few...
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:53 PM   #3
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http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200712/obama
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Old 02-22-2008, 03:10 PM   #4
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I'm going to just start with this issue right now. The war in Iraq: It has been one of the biggest foreign policy disasters in U.S. history. WE HAVE to leave as soon as possible. There was no terrorist presence in Iraq before our invasion, just as there were no WMDs. We know both of these things. These articles will give a fuller description.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...090800777.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

People were not getting blown up every day in Iraq until we went there. It did not become a terrorist breeding ground until we went there. How can people not understand that we've created the very thing we set out to destroy? You're correct in saying that Iraq is full of people who want to destroy us. That's because we invaded them, a sovereign nation, and proceeded to cause the deaths and injuries of thousands of innocent Iraquis through completely barbaric attacks on villages and homes with no more intelligence than a suspicion. We've created a system that forces them to go through checkpoints to drive through their own cities, or enter their own homes. We're violating their rights, so understandably many of them are angry and bitter towards our country. That makes them perfect prey for terrorist groups who have now come into their country to use bloated rhetoric and fear tactics (much like the Bush administration) to get the Iraquis to support their hatred. None of this would've happened if we hadn't gone to war. Here is a link to a site from Iraq veterans on why they're now against the war. http://ivaw.org/faq
There are numerous articles and books from experts that have shown this. They're readily avaliable on the Internet besides the links I provided. In short, we need to begin pulling the troops out of Iraq as soon as possible and allow the Iraqi government to take over control of it's own country. I support Obama's plan to ask and encourage Iraq's leaders to come to a new agreement on their Constitution and addressing of the important issues that affect them. The most important part of Obama's plan is the humanitarian initiative he wants to put in place to help the huge numbers of Iraqi refugees that have been displaced from their homes and lives because of this war. They're being denied food, shelter, medical care and basic human rights. Obama has a $2 billion plan to help bring these services to the refugees both in Iraq and in neighboring countries. If we want to stop the terrorists who are in Iraq because of this war we started, this is the way to do it. By fighting them we create more of them, by denying and destroying their human rights we feed their anger and desire for venegance. By treating them like the independent nation they should be, and by beginning to provide basic services to the people we caused to lose nearly everything, we can show them that we think they're as deserving of equality and human rights as we are. That is what will stop the conditions that are breeding terrorism there.

Obviously you and I have fundamental disagreements about the causes and results about the Iraq war. That comes from how we see the world. Neither of us are going to change that. I'm not going to argue with you or any other person who supports the war and/or McCain's candidacy. I'm simply presenting my point of view, just as you did in the McCain thread. Although, I completely disagree with your statements, I can respect them, so I hope you can respect mine, which in turn, line up with Senator Obama's.
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Old 02-22-2008, 03:14 PM   #5
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His healthcare plan is an actual plan, unlike McCain who has absolutely nothing. I have said here before that I prefer Hillary's plan to Obama's, because I find that it is more comprehensive. At the same time, it is also considerably more costly (something like $50-60 billion) and she's never really explained to me in a way that made sense how she'd get this extra money. Particularly in light of the usual right wing opposition to health care.

I like his quid pro quo plan of $4K for students in exchange for volunteerism. While I don't love the notion of mandatory volunteering (what an oxymoron), I do think there can be value in this. Some of the greatest experiences I had as a young person was to volunteer and give of my time and money, both locally and abroad. It is also a way of bringing young people into the public sector and that is in a way empowering. It's important to recognize the differences in how the public and private sectors operate, and it wasn't until I worked somewhere that was strapped for cash and funding that a lot of the broader policy issues started making sense. I certainly began framing things in a different way.

And I do agree with his policy on Pakistan. The place is a cesspool and I think the American policy towards that country has been abysmal. Nevermind the huge sums of money being advanced there for little in return. Not sure who woke up and decided that one Saudi Arabia hanging around our necks wasn't enough, we better get a second anvil.

The Iraq stuff is too long to get into right now, but needless to say, his position is far preferable to that of McCain.
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Old 02-22-2008, 03:31 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200712/obama
That was a really interesting article.
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Old 02-22-2008, 04:35 PM   #7
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This is quite an interesting contrast to the McCain thread.
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Old 02-22-2008, 05:55 PM   #8
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I like Obama for the following reasons -

*Energizing the youth - Historically I believe that it is the youth of this country who bring about real meaningful and lasting change.

* He has not been in the system long enough to be corrupted by it.

* I believe he will treat teachers and educators better than McCain.

* I believe he will be more inclined to be supportive of civil marriage rights for gay couples.

There is my starting list.
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Old 02-22-2008, 07:22 PM   #9
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http://forum.interference.com/t183095.html

I think reading this thread should answer your questions, since it pretty much asks the exact same questions.
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Old 02-22-2008, 07:27 PM   #10
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I was working on trying to decipher McCain's healthcare plan earlier, so I could compare and contrast it with Obama's, but it's incredibly confusing. I don't even understand what he wants to do that would really make the system any different than what we have now.
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Old 02-22-2008, 08:56 PM   #11
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the conclusions were not what was expected.
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Old 02-22-2008, 08:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
the conclusions were not what was expected.
The conclusions of what?
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Old 02-22-2008, 09:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
"Predominately white universities like Princeton are socially and academically designed to cater to the needs of the white students comprising the bulk of their enrollments."

the conclusions were not what was expected.

"I hoped that these findings would help me conclude that despite the high degree of identification with whites as a result of the educational and occupational path that black Princeton alumni follow, the alumni would still maintain a certain level of identification with the black community. However, these findings do not support this possibility."
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Old 02-22-2008, 09:02 PM   #14
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^Thanks! What does that have to do with this thread, though?
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Old 02-22-2008, 09:05 PM   #15
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Because he is married to someone that has insights on the black / white race divide.
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