Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Against Obama - Page 7 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-22-2008, 04:22 PM   #91
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 04:05 AM
philly and Snowlock, I think you two should consider just dropping it and backing off--you're not getting anywhere with each other, and the back-and-forth is starting to make entering this discussion feel like stepping onto a firing range.
__________________

__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 02-22-2008, 04:23 PM   #92
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,473
Local Time: 10:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Snowlock



The mere fact that there was media fascination with the guy between 2004-2007 lead to his candidacy. He would not be here today were it not for media attention following his senate victory. And yes, it was as large of scale to call it momentum. The guy went from absolutely unknown to among the top of American consciousness overnight and somehow in the intervening years managed to stay there.


but this simply isn't true.

no one really knew who he was until late 2007, and not really until after Iowa -- where he was a known commodity -- and that's when Hillary's huge national lead, due to her household name status, began to evaporate.

some people knew he gave a spectacular speech in 2004. maybe that he was a Senator. and then maybe that he was a black man running for president.

on a national level, he was not much more than a passing curiosity, a potential star, in the Democratic party. most people probably couldn't have named him or what state he was from. contrast this with our "known commodity" Mrs. Clinton.

i think you're really misunderstanding what is meant by "momentum." you can't have it when you're an unknown. you can only have it when you're a contender, something Obama wasn't, nationally, until *after* Iowa.

what's most true about Obama is the opposite of Mrs. Clinton -- the more people see of him, the more they listen to him, the more they like him.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 02-22-2008, 04:29 PM   #93
Self-righteous bullshitter
 
BoMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Soviet Canuckistan — Socialist paradise
Posts: 16,661
Local Time: 11:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
and she's literally in bed with a very popular, very successful ex-president
All valid points, Irvine, but I wouldn't go QUITE this far.
__________________

BoMac is offline  
Old 02-22-2008, 04:30 PM   #94
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 10:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
philly and Snowlock, I think you two should consider just dropping it and backing off--you're not getting anywhere with each other, and the back-and-forth is starting to make entering this discussion feel like stepping onto a firing range.
Fair enough. I'll stop addressing his posts. I still intend to stay in this thread, though, since I started it and am interested in the responses.
__________________
phillyfan26 is offline  
Old 02-22-2008, 04:30 PM   #95
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,234
Local Time: 09:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2


Elaborate.
-Our government spends $2.7 billion a WEEK in Iraq. I don't care who you are, spending that kind of money weekly does not fit into a small government's agenda.

-Small government doesn't intrude on the private lives of its citizens. This current administration wants to be able to wiretap without warrant, deny homosexuals equal rights, and has used fear as an excuse for eroding civil liberties. And has questioned the patriotism of those who oppose them.

-This administration came into power with a surplus and we are now riding and increasing upon a massive debt.
__________________
Diemen is offline  
Old 02-22-2008, 04:32 PM   #96
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 04:05 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26
Fair enough. I'll stop addressing his posts. I still intend to stay in this thread, though, since I started it and am interested in the responses.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 02-22-2008, 04:41 PM   #97
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 10:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen
-This administration came into power with a surplus and we are now riding and increasing upon a massive debt.
It's easy to get people not to notice the economic woes when you're hiding it under the championing of tax cuts.
__________________
phillyfan26 is offline  
Old 02-22-2008, 04:44 PM   #98
Refugee
 
Snowlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,211
Local Time: 09:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
philly and Snowlock, I think you two should consider just dropping it and backing off--you're not getting anywhere with each other, and the back-and-forth is starting to make entering this discussion feel like stepping onto a firing range.
yeah, I already did.
__________________
Snowlock is offline  
Old 02-22-2008, 04:48 PM   #99
Refugee
 
Snowlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,211
Local Time: 09:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




but this simply isn't true.

no one really knew who he was until late 2007, and not really until after Iowa -- where he was a known commodity -- and that's when Hillary's huge national lead, due to her household name status, began to evaporate.

some people knew he gave a spectacular speech in 2004. maybe that he was a Senator. and then maybe that he was a black man running for president.

on a national level, he was not much more than a passing curiosity, a potential star, in the Democratic party. most people probably couldn't have named him or what state he was from. contrast this with our "known commodity" Mrs. Clinton.

i think you're really misunderstanding what is meant by "momentum." you can't have it when you're an unknown. you can only have it when you're a contender, something Obama wasn't, nationally, until *after* Iowa.

what's most true about Obama is the opposite of Mrs. Clinton -- the more people see of him, the more they listen to him, the more they like him.
Sorry, but that's just not true. You may've not known who he was, and sure, he's even more well known now than he ever was - he's a legit prez candidate now compared to the speculative one he was from 2004-2007. But he was no curiosity, I'm not sure why you would say that. Even the most ardent anti-Obama politico will agree that since '04 he's been a major player and at least as loud a voice as Clinton, if not louder.
__________________
Snowlock is offline  
Old 02-22-2008, 04:56 PM   #100
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,234
Local Time: 09:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Snowlock
Even the most ardent anti-Obama politico will agree that since '04 he's been a major player and at least as loud a voice as Clinton, if not louder.
I don't think that's true (hey, I wanted to join in... )

But seriously, though, I don't think Obama was anywhere near as visible in the national media as Hillary until late 2006, and even then Hillary was still clearly the heavyweight. His speech at the 04 Convention was no doubt a hit, but at least in my experience in following the news, he dropped off the radar shortly after, and the media didn't really put him back on until everyone began announcing their candidacies.

From my perspective, it wasn't until the primaries got started that I feel he really started to play in the same league as Clinton.
__________________
Diemen is offline  
Old 02-22-2008, 05:07 PM   #101
Refugee
 
Snowlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,211
Local Time: 09:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen


I don't think that's true (hey, I wanted to join in... )

But seriously, though, I don't think Obama was anywhere near as visible in the national media as Hillary until late 2006, and even then Hillary was still clearly the heavyweight. His speech at the 04 Convention was no doubt a hit, but at least in my experience in following the news, he dropped off the radar shortly after, and the media didn't really put him back on until everyone began announcing their candidacies.

From my perspective, it wasn't until the primaries got started that I feel he really started to play in the same league as Clinton.
I may be, but trying not to, comparing Hillary to Obama regarding visibility. If Hilary was a 10 on the visibility scale, it has nothing to do with Obama being a 9.7. All I'm saying is prior to 2004, he was a .2. In '04 when the rest of the freshmen senators taking office were now a 1.2, Obama was a 9.6. The only win that got more headlines than his were GW's and he never stopped making headlines. Usually the public forget, like with Rudy G, but Obama managed to keep at the forefront and keep being a major player.

Was his profile lower before becoming a presidential candidate? Of course. But it was no Huckabee coming out of no where. He was as legit as McCaine or Clinton, despite being in the public eye for only 4 years.
__________________
Snowlock is offline  
Old 02-22-2008, 05:10 PM   #102
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,234
Local Time: 09:05 PM
I see what you're saying now. To an extent I agree - he didn't come out of nowhere for this election, but I wouldn't call him a 9.6 prior to it. Maybe a 5.
__________________
Diemen is offline  
Old 02-22-2008, 05:18 PM   #103
Refugee
 
Snowlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,211
Local Time: 09:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




see, this is what people are missing.

he's winning for a reason. she started out with way more money, way more name recognition, and she's literally in bed with a very popular, very successful ex-president. she's one of the faces of the now dearly missed 1990s peace and prosperity. she is a certifiable superstar in the democratic party and surely one of the most famous women in the world. they had every reason to run her, in the beginning, on a sense of inevitability. the moment she won the Senate in 2000 everyone knew she was going to make a run for the presidency. and her entire Senatorial career has been micromanaged with extreme prudence given to the larger picture -- her eventual presidential run.

and he's totally beaten her in every aspect of this campaign. someone with only one "real" campaign under his belt. and he's done it fair and square.
That's because she's a total bitch and everyone knows it.
__________________
Snowlock is offline  
Old 02-22-2008, 05:21 PM   #104
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,473
Local Time: 10:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Snowlock


That's because she's a total bitch and everyone knows it.


oh fuck off.

/leaves thread
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 02-22-2008, 05:21 PM   #105
Refugee
 
Snowlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,211
Local Time: 09:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen
I see what you're saying now. To an extent I agree - he didn't come out of nowhere for this election, but I wouldn't call him a 9.6 prior to it. Maybe a 5.
C'mon now, Mitt Romney was a 5. A 5 is, "I heard that name before but can't place it even though I know he's a major." McCaine was a about a 7. You gotta agree that Obama was making more noise than McCaine.
__________________

__________________
Snowlock is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com