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Old 02-22-2008, 02:39 PM   #46
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Against Obama

Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26


George W. Bush.
I'd like complete sentences, please.

You know, believe it or not, I don't agree with everything President Bush has ever done.
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:42 PM   #47
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Against Obama

Quote:
Originally posted by U2isthebest


The rest of your statement, although I strongly disagree with much of it, is a perfectly valid opinion. This, however, is a bit ridiculous. Nearly every candidate for public office that was a teen/young adult during the 1960s or 1970s used drugs during that time. Much of the younger population in general at that time experimented heavily with drugs. Much of the young population today does. It happens regardless of our personal beliefs about it being right or wrong. Our current president and President Clinton both admitted to drug use in the past as have a lot of other people holding high office in our country.
Especially in the 60's and 70's, please provide some numbers on drug usage. The 60's and 70's were much more conservative, drugs much less accessable then you see on TV and in the movies.

And no where did I say using drugs should preclude a person from office, I said I don't like it when they do because it shows a weak will. Clinton, no matter how much you may love him, will never be described as a strong willed individual, and I'm sure you will agree neither will W.
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:43 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26
Where the hell do you get this idea from? I think that, among all of this, might be the biggest bullshit I've read about Obama.
Please don't be so strident.



Personally my reason for not seeing Obama's admitted past drug use as a serious concern is that he was a teenager at the time, he openly owns up to the nature of it, and there's no evidence I've seen that he experienced substance abuse problems in his adult life. That said, I don't find "Ah, everyone did that in the '70s"-type rationalizations very convincing either--Obama's own description of his drug use in his autobiography suggests that he consciously used drugs and alcohol as an escape from personal problems, which is much closer to an abuse paradigm than a casual experimentation one. Still, for me the fact that he was a teenager and apparently had no such problems as an adult effectively makes it a nonissue--self-destructive 'coping' behaviors are normal enough among teenagers in my view; it's when they continue into the adult years that I'd start getting nervous about the person's fitness for positions of high responsibility.

And yeah, there's definitely a big difference between "having a beer" and being psychologically dependent on alcohol.
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:44 PM   #49
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Against Obama

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Originally posted by 2861U2


I'd like complete sentences, please.

You know, believe it or not, I don't agree with everything President Bush has ever done.
Well, you say you like small government, and he's made government not just big, but massive.
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:45 PM   #50
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Against Obama

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Originally posted by Snowlock


I knew someone was going to bring this up. I'm not even going to pursue this. Drugs and alchohol are not equal. Until drugs are legalized I'm not participating in the debate. I'll have a beer, you do cocaine. To each his own.


it's true.

far, far more many lives have been destroyed by alcohol than by drugs.

but that's beside the point ... on a more substantive issue, i think both Hillary and Obama are wildly more competent and effective than Kerry, and i can't think of a more unimpressive candidate than GWB, who has soundly proved himself to be a total disaster.

if anything, i'm quite pleased with the Democratic candidates, and i feel that either Hillary or Obama would have soundly beaten Kerry in '04 (in a weird sort of timewarp). i also think that both McCain and Romney would make better presidents than GWB. so i guess i'm just disputing the overall quality of the field. i think it's stronger than it was in '04.
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:45 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26
Wasn't Bush a crack addict?


it was widely known that Bush abused cocaine in the 1970s.
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:47 PM   #52
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Re: Re: Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Against Obama

Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2
McCain supports the tax cuts and would make them permanent. With one kid in college, one just out of college, and one a few years away from entering college, I really would hate for my parents to be paying more in taxes for unnecessary things, like someone else's healthcare.
I usually just lurk in FYM, and try to stay away from the madness, as nothing I say, or nothing anyone else says will change my opinion or vice versa.

That being said, this statement really bothered me. How is healthcare unnecessary? Can you eleborate on what you mean? This type of attitude from conservatives totally baffles me. Have you no compassion? Ok, so your family is able to afford healthcare, that's fantastic. But what about the millions who, no matter what can not afford health insurance. For many, they had the misfortune of being being into a poor family, thus unable to pay for healthcare. What if this was the case for someone in your family, i.e an aunt, uncle, cousin etc. Or a friend. Would you still deem healthcare unnecessary?
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:48 PM   #53
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Re: Re: Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Against Obama

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Originally posted by 2861U2

Obama, who wants to bomb Pakistan.


i'm sorry, i have to call BULLSHIT here.

Obama said that if Pakistan refused to act, he would bomb known Al Qaeda targets within Pakistani borders. so if they had actionable intelligence that Osama Bin Laden were on the move within Pakistani borders, he would drop a bomb on him. that's all. it's quite a hawkish position, i'd think you'd like that.

please, please, please. do some research before tossing out completely false McCain talking points.
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:49 PM   #54
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Against Obama

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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I'm not comparing drugs to alcohol. I'm comparing someone who dabbled and someone who is ADDICTED. Which one speaks of weaker will?
I don't want to keep veering the thread into this tangent, but I take issue with that.

Addiction is a disease, and equating someone who is an addict with being weak-willed is questionable and unfair.

If you want to argue that he's weak-willed for other reasons, go right ahead.
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:50 PM   #55
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Against Obama

Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2


Elaborate.
You like big government. You want them to be able to wiretap, you want them to be able to tell homosexuals they can't marry, you want more military abroad, the list goes on and on...

You just like using the phrases of old.
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:52 PM   #56
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Against Obama

Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26


I said your statement was bullshit, and only part of it. That's a far cry from calling you full of bullshit.

There's been zero indication that Obama wants to run just for the sake of becoming a black president. Zero. None. It hasn't happened.

For people that complain about the hope and change stuff, now suddenly he doesn't even want that? I think it's quite clear that his motivations are for the betterment of the country.

It's funny to hear "Grow up" coming from you.
Base that on something. Please. Go back and quote something in context, providing the quote as well of whoever I'm replying to. I'm so sick of some of you and you're uninformed, historically vacant garbage including opinions on me. So why don't you go back into some past threads, search by my name, and post some of my responses. But also, post some of the previous repsonses to me. Just like you're "bullshit" comment. Have I ever said some of the crap you've spewed is bullshit? No. In fact, I've never said a negative thing about you even though I probably would value the opinion of Paris Hilton over yours.

There's been zero indication, Philly, TO YOU. Do you think he's just gonna come out and say it? I'M saying given that he was just elected to the senate in a major upset, and all the press that it generated, it was inevitable, the OPPORTUNITY was too great to NOT run for president. He's not ready. Everyone knows he's not. You even know it which is why you didn't want to have experience as part of the discussion. But what he's got is momentum. Running because of momentum implies that he's running to win. WIN, not improve the country.

And no, Paris, Bush never smoked crack.
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:57 PM   #57
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Agains

Quote:
Originally posted by Snowlock
I'm so sick of some of you and you're uninformed, historically vacant garbage including opinions on me.

There's been zero indication, Philly, TO YOU. Do you think he's just gonna come out and say it? I'M saying given that he was just elected to the senate in a major upset, and all the press that it generated, it was inevitable, the OPPORTUNITY was too great to NOT run for president. He's not ready. Everyone knows he's not. You even know it which is why you didn't want to have experience as part of the discussion. But what he's got is momentum. Running because of momentum implies that he's running to win. WIN, not improve the country.

And no, Paris, Bush never smoked crack.
That sentence up there cracked me up: "you're uninformed garbage." I like that.

But yeah, surely I'll bring up some threads of yours to illustrate my opinion of you. I don't really care if you've never said anything to me. You've been rude to plenty of people around here, and I remember.

I'm going to ask you the same thing: "Base that on something." Give me one indication why his race has anything to do with his motivation to run. Give me something that says he doesn't want to improve the country. Some quote, some action. Give it to me.

Why was he arrested for cocaine posession in the early '70s if he never smoked it?
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:59 PM   #58
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Agains

Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26
Why was he arrested for cocaine posession in the early '70s if he never smoked it?
He was holding it for a friend.
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Old 02-22-2008, 03:00 PM   #59
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Against Obama

Quote:
Originally posted by corianderstem


I don't want to keep veering the thread into this tangent, but I take issue with that.

Addiction is a disease, and equating someone who is an addict with being weak-willed is questionable and unfair.

If you want to argue that he's weak-willed for other reasons, go right ahead.
I completely agree. But I used weak-willed for two reasons, one the original post of Snowlocks equating dabbling to weak-willed. And two many AA programs will teach that addiction is a disease, but giving into that addiction is a matter of weakness.

I honestly applaud Bush for being able to give up drinking. But another thing you'll learn in addicition programs that you are always addicted, you are an addict for life. But I've said it in here time after time, recovering addicts are capable of many great things, but having the power of the US in your hands is not one I want to see in a recovering addict's hands.




I think snowlock's mention of drug use was probably one of the weakest things I've seen in here in a long while...
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Old 02-22-2008, 03:00 PM   #60
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoManiac
He was holding it for a friend.
I wonder if the friend was Michael Irvin, who was also going to hold it for a friend?
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