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Old 02-22-2008, 01:41 PM   #16
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Early January. Don't worry about it, though. I've trouble remembering my own friend's birthdays, how can I expect it of FYMers?
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Old 02-22-2008, 01:43 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26
I suppose you don't have to worry about me, since I won't be old enough to go vote this November.

I'm not worried about you at all

Quote:
A person can have wisdom at 15
or 17
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Old 02-22-2008, 01:43 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26
Early January. Don't worry about it, though. I've trouble remembering my own friend's birthdays, how can I expect it of FYMers?

Damn. Oh well, I'll catch you next year.
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Old 02-22-2008, 01:44 PM   #19
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First of all, what's so bad about Obama's experience? He's been in politics for over ten years. What can he not do that McCain can?
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Old 02-22-2008, 01:44 PM   #20
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To get back on-thread, there is not a single policy reason that I would vote for McCain.

His health care plan is just idiotic. He's embraced this free-market ideology and thinks that it can correct for all the shortcomings of health care. That is clearly wrong, and worse than that, it's lazy.

I am not aware of any kind of economic policy and he's already said he doesn't know much about economics so that's that. As an aside, I don't think he's going to want to talk about this in the general anyway, since it's not the crux of his platform. He already showed poor judgment here by telling the people of Michigan that their jobs are not coming back. That much is true, but it goes to show you that he is completely tone deaf on the economy.

His 100 more years in Iraq is not just wrong, but it's not financially sustainable. The US cannot afford to stay there, plain and simple. His saber-rattling regarding Iran is just sabre-rattling in my mind, but it's nonetheless dangerous and it's precisely the sort of issue that will keep American allies from reconciling with the new administration.

I do believe he had a reasonable immigration policy, but I think he's started flip flopping and I have no faith at all that he has enough principles left to fight the party on it. Practically speaking, he can't anyway.

I haven't heard anything else come out of his mouth that is in some way progressive or will get something done. All he talks about is the war on terror, and treats all the other issues as a "by the way" sort of thing.

Aside from that, I have no respect left for him as a person, for a variety of reasons.
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Old 02-22-2008, 01:49 PM   #21
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Against Obama

Quote:
Originally posted by deep


I don't know it.

I am not sure of the ages of most of the posters in here. I do have some vague ideas.

A person can have wisdom at 15 and a person at 60 may not have much wisdom.

One advantage of living longer is that one can look back on decisions and evaluate what thinking lead to correct decisions and what thinking lead to incorrect decisions.

Hopefully I am not repeating my same mistakes over and over.

Each candidate is unique and presents certain advantages.

I only asked because I don't believe many people will go to the polls and not consider

experience. That will be one of the biggest factors people will consider.

To remove it from the discussion, makes the discussion not legitimate.

Experience does not always give one the advantage. If the election were between Obama and G W Bush. The Bush experience is a big disadvantage.
I would be campaigning for Obama.

And all the experience Bush Sr had did not prevent his lost to Clinton.

I certainly don't remember anyone saying you can't talk about experience in 1992 during the election between Bill Clinton and GHW Bush Sr.






We do seem to be having a kind of "American Idol" like phenomenon going on.

and that is working towards one candidate's advantage much more than the others.
I sort of think you've missed the point, though.

Experience has been beaten to death, in my opinion. And it's February.

I wanted this thread to debate the issues, not an overrated number.
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Old 02-22-2008, 01:57 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26
First of all, what's so bad about Obama's experience? He's been in politics for over ten years. What can he not do that McCain can?
I don't think there is anything really wrong with his experience

He is someone I would expect to enthusiastically support with a little more seasoning

It is kind of funny in the thread about last nights debate

all the Obama supporters seem to be real happy with the results and even the grades

and when it comes down to what really matters?

substance

Hillary got an A-

and

Obama bot a C+

Now on substance
I would give our current President a F

Bill Clinton, especially his last term was an A

Bush 1, his four years graded on substance? about a C C+


So there you have it - Obama is way better than W

about the same as Bush 1

and 2 grades below both Bill and Hillary
on what?

substance!

I do believe that Obama has the potential to be an A

and yes a little more experience and track record is all it should take
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Old 02-22-2008, 01:58 PM   #23
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Against Obama

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Originally posted by phillyfan26


an overrated number.
what do you mean?
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:02 PM   #24
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Number of years.

And I think the C+ grade was a little undergraded.
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:13 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26
Number of years.

And I think the C+ grade was a little undergraded.
I would never vote on age?

In 1992 and 1996 both GHW Bush 1 and Bob Dole had a lot of years and what some would call more experience than Bill Clinton.

But Bill Clinton had enough experience, backed up with sound reasoning and an agenda
- that he was successful over number of years.

as for the C+ on substance

I did read that thread pretty close and all the Obama supporters did not disagree and seemed to be agree with the results
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:13 PM   #26
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Against Obama

Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26


I sort of think you've missed the point, though.

Experience has been beaten to death, in my opinion. And it's February.

I wanted this thread to debate the issues, not an overrated number.
The problem, Philly, is that underneath all the bluster from both sides, this year's elections could very well go down as being historically significant in that this may be the weakest class of candidates in a long time.

Obama, Hillary, Edwards, McCaine, Romney & Huckabee are all c-listers. The only reason Obama looks attractive is because Hillary is so unattractive. McCaine's weaknesses make Obama attractive as well.

McCaine looks old next to Obama. That doesn't make him a bad candidate, but in this paparazzi culture it's gonna hurt him. McCaine's big problem though is that he's always been a little too far out there in his views. A little too hawkish, a little too underpolished, a little too prone to taking uninformed stances. I like his character and history, but don't trust his judgement.

Can't trust Obama either. He was just elected to the Senate. His candidacy strikes me as just doing it to see if he can, to see how far he can ride the wave he's on and to see if a black man can be president. I don't have a problem with anyone being president if they are doing it to serve the best interests of their country. I'm just can't shake the feeling Obama is running to serve himself. It's a bit too oportunistic. I don't like the drug thing from his past either. It tells me he's not the strongest willed person.

Both sides, weak weak candidates. I'm not one of those idiots who's going to cry the sky is falling whoever wins, like some did in '04, our country has too many checks and balances for that, but I hope no matter who wins, a stronger challenger comes around in 2012.
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:17 PM   #27
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Against Obama

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Originally posted by Snowlock

I don't like the drug thing from his past either. It tells me he's not the strongest willed person.

Were you ok with electing an alcoholic?
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:17 PM   #28
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Against Obama

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Originally posted by Snowlock


I don't like the drug thing from his past either. It tells me he's not the strongest willed person.

The rest of your statement, although I strongly disagree with much of it, is a perfectly valid opinion. This, however, is a bit ridiculous. Nearly every candidate for public office that was a teen/young adult during the 1960s or 1970s used drugs during that time. Much of the younger population in general at that time experimented heavily with drugs. Much of the young population today does. It happens regardless of our personal beliefs about it being right or wrong. Our current president and President Clinton both admitted to drug use in the past as have a lot of other people holding high office in our country.
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:18 PM   #29
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Against Obama

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Originally posted by Snowlock
Can't trust Obama either. He was just elected to the Senate. His candidacy strikes me as just doing it to see if he can, to see how far he can ride the wave he's on and to see if a black man can be president. I don't have a problem with anyone being president if they are doing it to serve the best interests of their country. I'm just can't shake the feeling Obama is running to serve himself. It's a bit too oportunistic. I don't like the drug thing from his past either. It tells me he's not the strongest willed person.
Where the hell do you get this idea from? I think that, among all of this, might be the biggest bullshit I've read about Obama.
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Old 02-22-2008, 02:19 PM   #30
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Give a Legitimate Argument For McCain, Against Obama

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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Were you ok with electing an alcoholic?
I knew someone was going to bring this up. I'm not even going to pursue this. Drugs and alchohol are not equal. Until drugs are legalized I'm not participating in the debate. I'll have a beer, you do cocaine. To each his own.
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