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Old 08-24-2002, 11:38 PM   #1
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germany calls us efforts "adventurism"

http://dw-world.de/english/0,3367,14...21_1_A,00.html


i've been reflecting today over the latest political developments from the past few weeks. how america is pushing itself farther into countries without reason nor explaining it to its own public. whether it be accusations of prisoner abuse or corporate scandals, america is heading toward some serious reconstruction. my generation doesn't need a vietnam.
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Old 08-24-2002, 11:59 PM   #2
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Re: germany calls us efforts "adventurism"

I disagree with the German administration that it is "adventurism," and I disagree with your claim that we are "pushing ourselves further into countries without reason."

In the case at hand, I think that Saddam Hussein is the reason, due to his fetishes for killing people with chemical weapons and his growing desire for nuclear weapons.

Also, he is an anti-semite.

~U2Alabama
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Old 08-25-2002, 12:05 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama
I disagree with the German administration that it is "adventurism," and I disagree with your claim that we are "pushing ourselves further into countries without reason."

In the case at hand, I think that Saddam Hussein is the reason, due to his fetishes for killing people with chemical weapons and his growing desire for nuclear weapons.

Also, he is an anti-semite.

~U2Alabama
i know that saddam is the reason. but i want george w to tell me that too. i want him to list it out to me why we MUST go to war with iraq instead of other options. i just really don't like where this is headed.
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Old 08-25-2002, 12:10 AM   #4
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I don't "like" where it is headed, either. I don't like the thought that my next door neighbor, a Blackhawk pilot with 2 very young daughters, could be called up. I don't like the fact that it could make us a target of more groups. I wish I could snap my fingers and Saddam would be absolved of power, but that won't happen.

For the record, I am as yet undecided as to when any action should be taken against him. It would be great if an internal revolution got rid of him.

~U2Alabama
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Old 08-25-2002, 12:16 AM   #5
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i am sorry, i hope it didn't seem like i was saying that i thought you liked where this was going. in no way did i mean that.


bama, you are wiser than i in many ways, how do you see this ending? i have thought about the possibility of a peace talk, but ruled that out completely since we are dealing with an illogical man. do you think there is another way to fight this other than air raids? cos i'm scared of their retaliation.
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Old 08-25-2002, 12:25 AM   #6
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I am not necessarily wiser than you; as I stated, these are merely my opinions. Unfortunately, I do feel that an armed conflict will occur. I hope it does not occur, but I would not oppose any appropriate action taken.

Someone posted a thread or poll awhile back asking people's opinion on war; I didn't reply, but I would have said that YES, war is BAD, in fact, it is HELL. Both sides lose people. Peace may be achieved, but at the cost of carnage. I wish it were never necessary, but unfortunately, my wish has not come true.

How will this situation all turn out? I do not know; I am nervous about having so little international support. Maybe many things will change very soon and nothing bad will happen. Here's hoping.

~U2Alabama
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Old 08-25-2002, 12:42 AM   #7
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you are older than me, you've got perspective ;)

Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama
I I do not know; I am nervous about having so little international support.

~U2Alabama

exactly. our going pretty much alone into this is scaring me. a lot. either way there will be a huge public backlash. i'm not sure that i would really fully support a "by any means necessary" machivellian type war. i think that a lot has been and is being taken away from us as far as civil liberties are being concerned. this is something that the american public should watch a little closer.
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Old 08-25-2002, 12:49 AM   #8
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Personally, I have not experienced this deprivation of civil liberties, but apparently many people have. I have been subjected to numerous searches at the airport and all of that type of thing, but that is not a loss of civil liberties. Some grocery store chains have turned over their "Frequent Buyer Card" data to the FBI, but isn't that what liberals have been wanting the government to do with a "smart card"?

~U2Alabama
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Old 08-25-2002, 01:04 AM   #9
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i like talking with you bama

our civil liberties haven't gone...yet. i just feel that they are in jeopardy of being compromised. what do i care if the fbi knows i buy white bread from rainbow?


and like you, i've been searched a thousand times over at airports. hell, even the 5 month old baby i was carrying was searched. i don't mind that, it's for safety, but i'm watching over the rest of my rights very carefully.
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Old 08-25-2002, 01:21 AM   #10
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We went to see a movie last weekend, and when I called the "What's Showing Hotline" at the theater, they had a special announcement, "In light of security procautions taken due to 9/11, we no longer allow backpacks in the cinemas."

I felt violated in that case, since I usually like to take my backpack into the theater and read books and check my camping equipment while I am watching the movie in a dark setting.

~U2Alabama
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Old 08-25-2002, 01:31 AM   #11
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I want to say that not only Robbie (aka. Like Someone to Blame) has a lovely wife that would go, Bama (~U2) has a neighbor that would go, but my one and only sister and her new husband would also go to Iraq when (not if) it happens. I talked with them both about this a couple of weeks back in my pool while they visited and we watched the kids tear up my pool and raise hell.

I would trade with my lovely sister in the beat of a heart, I hope she really does not go.

I think my lovely mother, who has lopus and other serious health problems, hopes her only daughter does not go into war either.

However, I support what we are going to do.

I mean this in a non-arguementative way.

Lilly, and others, you have no idea what we are facing if we don't go. I really encourage you to pray , as will I.

God Bless,
Z
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Old 08-25-2002, 01:46 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by LOVE MUSCLE
Lilly, and others, you have no idea what we are facing if we don't go. I really encourage you to pray , as will I.

God Bless,
Z

i see what we will face if we don't go, some of it at least. i just hate to see it like this, all of this unnecessary secrecy and lying. i want the case made to me still.

i don't know love muscle. i'm just scared.
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Old 08-25-2002, 01:58 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by LOVE MUSCLE

Lilly, and others, you have no idea what we are facing if we don't go. I really encourage you to pray , as will I.

God Bless,
Z
No, no we don't because the US (Bush and co) are doing a terrible terrible job in 'selling' the idea. Spitting out good soundbites for the 6 o'clock news isn't enough.

If Iraq has stuff (WMD's), and is definetaly a threat, then the worlds support for the US would double, triple, but the US just isn't making a good case for it.

I was watching the Fox News Chnl the other day (its exactly the same in Australia as the US, with the exception of a couple of 'local' hours a day) and its unbelievable. Biggest load of bullshit I ever saw. That is not a news channel. Does Rumsfeld own it?

Anyway, if the US can put their case for war out on the table, then I think they'll get the support of people like me, and maybe the support of some other countries. Don't underestimate how important it will be to get that support either (not mine, George doesn't care for mine, bastard) but other nations. Going it alone, or just with the support of Israel, UK and Australia (which is pretty much all you've got) would be a big mistake for the US.

But they are not making a case at all.
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Old 08-25-2002, 02:29 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by TylerDurden

But they are not making a case at all.
i don't WANT a case being made to me. i don't WANT propaganda given to me. i WANT THE TRUTH. and i don't think it's that much to ask to get that from my own government.


though you do have a very good point about iraq having wmd (it's not a question, they DO have them) and the us making a case against that. we need the support of other countries on this one, it is not something to be taken on by the us alone.
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Old 08-25-2002, 02:48 AM   #15
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Well they aren't the salesmen they should be, that is obvious. Maybe the case complete cannot be made fully available in order to not jeopardize troops.

I think that the facts we DO know should be enough though, I am far too drunk to get into this AGAIN tonight though.

My knowledge from my association is not something I can discuss either.

I will limp on back to Lemonade stand where I can at least be drunk without notice

G'night guys and gals

Peace

and I love you all
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