"Generation Debt": College Costs, Uncertain Job Market Threaten Young Futures

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"Generation Debt": College Costs, Uncertain Job Market Threaten Young Futures

Part of an author interview from the NYC website Gothamist.
25-year-old Pulitzer Prize nominee Anya Kamenetz is worried about her peers, and herself. In her new book Generation Debt, the Village Voice columnist outlines the key factors damning her age bracket: student loans with exorbitant interest rates, dead-end, low-paying and temporary jobs, lack of health insurance, Social Security instability, and media, culture and families who view her generation as lazy and apathetic.

GOTHAMIST: Can you summarize the premise of Generation Debt?

KAMENETZ: Over the last generation, there's been a sharp drop-off in the quality of opportunities offered to young people, caused by a huge divestment in K-16 education, and the devolution of the job market to this low-wage, service-sector deal on the non-BA side, and part-time, unpaid-intern, temporary, contract, and freelance work on the college-grad side. A college degree is now a crucial pass for entry into the middle class, and yet young people are no more likely to have one than our parents--only 28 percent get one. And for those who do graduate, two-thirds are borrowing student loans, graduating with between $17,600 and $23,000 in debt. Because they can't make ends meet, people under 35 are running up an average of $4000 in credit card debt. We've never sent out any generation into the world with that kind of mini-mortgage on their backs. And the irony is, this withdrawal of support for young people is occurring when the US desperately needs a super-sharp, highly skilled workforce to compete with what's happening in China and India, and to support the retirement of the Baby Boomers.

G: ...what surprised you the most as you delved into the topic?

K: I guess what surprised me the most is the gulf between the popular media images of young peoples' lives and what they are actually like. Middle-class, working-class kids are working their butts off to stay in school--20, 30 hours a week at a job, plus classes. They have to work so much that it takes them longer to graduate--an average of six years--which means they have to take out more loans, and on and on.

G: How do race and sex interact with these generational issues?

K: Poorly! Crudely, the younger generation is a lot more black and brown than older people are, and that seems to be having some impact on the willingness of older people to invest in them and make sure they get a fair chance. The gap in college attendance between Hispanics and whites was 5 percentage points in the 1970s; it's 11 points today. Bob Herbert ran a column last week pointing out that only a sixth of African-American kids and a twelfth of Hispanics are getting a college degree. Over half of those who do, graduate with unmanageable debt.

When it comes to women, the pay gap persists. And young women who want families are wondering who exactly is going to pay for them. Because of this delayed entry into the workforce, a lot of women in their late 20s are still just getting established in their careers and they can't exactly afford to downshift when they haven't even upshifted yet.

G: Do most young people only confront these issues once they've finished college and are first starting out in the work world? Is there anything they or their parents can do to pre-empt some of the financial burdens they'll face post-college?

K: I'd like to reiterate that "most young people" do not finish college. Only half have any college experience at all. It's true, people tend not to face reality until they are in the middle of it. People do have options to avoid financial burdens. It may be realistic to go to a community college for two years and then transfer to a state school. For almost everyone, I would say avoid getting a student credit card. Use a debit card instead. I never had a credit card until I was two years out of school, and then the only one I could get was a Capital One Visa with a $300 limit. Those were good training wheels for me

And it's a good idea for everyone–whether community college or graduate student—to approach your education as more than a period of exploration, as it's often presented to us. The fact is that it's a major investment and if it's a burden on you or your parents, you need to take responsibility to make sure it pays off. That doesn't necessarily mean you have to study accounting. But maximize your exposure to the working world—through internships, shadowing professionals, meeting people in fields you're curious about—and make sure you understand as much as possible about the path from point A, education, to point B, a job.
Kamenetz also lamented the absence of any sort of organized, national student movement to demand of not only colleges, but also state higher-ed budget-makers and student loan outfits like Sallie Mae, a fairer shot for young people at affording a college degree without accumulating ballooning debts their uncertain job prospects can't accommodate. I think this is a very interesting idea, but with our higher education system being as decentralized as it is, it doesn't seem very likely to happen.

The book itself is a bit shrill at times, but it does lay out the issues well, and some good sound financial advice in there too...at least, from what I could tell in 10 highly distacted minutes flash-skimming it at Borders the other night (with a howling 3 year old in my other arm and a sobbing 5 year old tugging at my pants... :angry: ).
 
Well, at least someone took notice. Unfortunately, no one seems to be listening. Most of my professors and the people in my local community still function under the assumption that my parents are paying for my college ed. Funny, since my ed. is costing MORE THAN my dad's yearly salary! He couldn't pay for my education if he wanted to. Meanwhile, I'm engaged, with $50,000 in dept and my fiance carries another $30,000 or so. And everyone's telling us how money and finances are the top reasons for fighting and destroying young marriages. I really am scared.....
 
I guess what surprised me the most is the gulf between the popular media images of young peoples' lives and what they are actually like. Middle-class, working-class kids are working their butts off to stay in school--20, 30 hours a week at a job, plus classes. They have to work so much that it takes them longer to graduate--an average of six years--which means they have to take out more loans, and on and on.

With a few specific exceptions, I believe that it is a terrible idea for college kids to work during the school year. Manning a cash register or being a salesperson at Best Buy doesn't pay well and doesn't do anything to enhance one's career prospects. Plus, there's the obvious point that logging all those hours will hurt one's grades or delay one's graduation. Exceptions include working in a lab, grading papers, and running one's own business. (I remember a while back at my school that a number of students made a nifty profit buying textbooks at lower prices overseas and selling them on campus.)

Although it is sad that it is difficult for motivated kids to fund their education, there are some things they can do if money is really tight. Graduating in 3 or 3-1/2 years and/or taking loans from a bank are much better ideas than working during the school year, imho.
 
I disagree with the not working while you're in college. Unless you're a science major with labs, you're in class for 3 or 4 hours a day tops. The workload isn't the same for all classes, but there is still an abundance of free time even with all the studying. If a student wants to work a couple hours a day at Best Buy for the discount or for beer money, all the power to him.

The biggest thing college teaches you is how to manage your time because so much of it is spent outside the classroom. Some people can handle it and others can't. I think that alcohol is much more of a reason for people fucking up and not graduating on time than working too much is.

My sense of things could be skewed though because I attended a liberal arts school where an extremely high percentage of students graduated on time and had parents paying for most of the tuition.
 
the best present my parents ever gave me was enabling me to graduate debt-free. this enabled me to do more volunteer-type stuff in the summer for very low pay.

i am forever thankful.
 
speedracer said:


With a few specific exceptions, I believe that it is a terrible idea for college kids to work during the school year.
Although it is sad that it is difficult for motivated kids to fund their education, there are some things they can do if money is really tight. Graduating in 3 or 3-1/2 years and/or taking loans from a bank are much better ideas than working during the school year, imho.

Well, I wish I could agree with you. I'm currently a full time student working FOUR part time jobs AND I have an internship. I take out the max in loans from the government and also have close to $20,000 in loans from Citibank and some other bank. I made over $10,000 this past year and NOT A CENT has gone towards this year's tuition. There are a gazillion other living expenses besides tuition. Books, rent, utilities, food, transportation, clothes, misc. school supplies, interest on loans (HUGE one there), health insurance...to name a few.

How do you suppose normal people live without being able to buy groceries or pay rent?

Also, I happen to be very grateful for the opporunities my present job (which I've held since my freshman year) is opening up for me. I wouldn't be eligible for half of the jobs I'm looking at without this experience (senior HelpDesk computer technician).

I don't mind working during school; I've never expected not to. I worked my way through high school and never assumed my parents would help with college. I just get bitter because it seems like the entire world still has those assumptions and it makes it very difficult and frustrating, to the point of depression sometimes, than normal people are getting the shaft.

Things are just too competitive these days. My school keeps raising tuition because they say we're the best liberal arts school in our class, which is true, but it's almost impossible to get good scholarships anymore. My mom went here too and she got a four year full ride academic scholarship with a 3.4 high school GPA, no honors, no extracurriculars. I came in with 4 years of varsity sport, including one year as team captain and two years as MVP, 4 years of math, 4 years of science, and 4 years of foreign language, and a 3.9 GPA from the best private school in the area and I got next to jack shit. Nothing balances out anymore. Everything's 10 times more competitive, the cost of living and the cost of tuition are rising exponentially, and the minimum wage is still below $6/hr. What the fuck.
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:

Nothing balances out anymore. Everything's 10 times more competitive, the cost of living and the cost of tuition are rising exponentially, and the minimum wage is still below $6/hr. What the fuck.



i know this sounds really flip, but this strikes me as precisely the reason why people should vote Democrat.

you've beautifully given voice to where the real squeeze has been on people these past 20 years or so, while the tax cuts have gone to those making solid 6 figure salaries.

flame me for politicizing this all you want, but there is no reason on earth someone like LivLuv should be so crushed with debt and overburdened with having to somehow make it all work out.

this is precisely where the government should step in and help a sister out.

good luck. my BF was like you -- he had to pay for everything, and it's given him a crucial leg up on many of his contemporaries at the top-tier consulting frim he now works at: he has no sense of entitlement, and he lacks any sort of pretention, and these two qualities serve him enormously.
 
Thanks, Irvine. You can politicize it all you want b/c quite frankly the experience has made me very bitter and beyond caring. The only hope is that my fiance might go back and get a teaching degree, which would stall some of the loan payments and maybe erase some (I think some you don't have to pay back if you're going into education). This past year has been hard because previously, I had something to look forward to - going to Africa, an oportunity that I simply would not have had anywhere else based on the costs and the professor who runs the program - but now that I've done that, there's really no purpose for me to continue schooling at this rate of expense, other than to simply finish. :yawn:

It's scary to think that my education will have cost more than my family's home, a home that my parents will be paying off until they die, or sell it and take on a new mortgage.
 
^ :up: (well really :down: , but you know what I mean)

You're not alone--75% of undergrads work now, an average of 26 hours a week. And like LivLuv, an awful lot of them are doing it because they have to just to get by--there's housing and basic living costs to be covered after all, and very few aid packages cover everything where tuition is concerned. Even Pell Grants, underused though they are, now typically cover only about 40% of tuition, as opposed to 77% back in 1980. Meanwhile, tuition rates have soared 45% over the last decade. The average college graduate today is $20,000 in debt by the time they finish (a 66% increase since 1997, during which time real per capita income has only increased 8%)--add grad school onto that, and you'll wind up owing more like $46,000. I am still paying off my grad school bills. And frankly, the more you defer, the deeper the hole you dig for yourself, because interest rates and fees and penalties can easily wind up leaving you ultimately paying double what you originally owed. And you can't count on securing a stable good-paying job to work your way out of that on a timely schedule.

It's a miserable situation. I worked full-time through college and most of grad school and I know firsthand what a strain it is, but what can you do. I did very well gradewise, and I agree with randhail that more students (especially undergrads) fall off-track due to drinking than working. Still, a lot of students do wind up leaving "for just a couple years" because their money's run out, and a lot of them never come back, and I suspect these folks are the worst off of all. Then there's all the new, "nontraditional" older students who are supporting children and aging parents and working full-time on top of all that--but that's a whole other story unto itself.
Originally posted byLivLuvandBootlegMusic
Meanwhile, I'm engaged, with $50,000 in dept and my fiance carries another $30,000 or so. And everyone's telling us how money and finances are the top reasons for fighting and destroying young marriages. I really am scared.....
:hug:

I strongly recommend that any young people getting married today, particularly ones who are already carrying a heavy debt burden, have a couple sessions with a marriage counselor or qualified pastor or the like beforehand to discuss (among other things) views and priorities concerning money, saving, loans, retirement goals, and where children fit into all this, in a structured way. Maybe even a meeting with a financial planner, too (*don't* think of these folks as a luxury; you don't need to see them often to benefit enormously from it, and again, they provide you with a structured framework for getting a handle on your financial situation, something most of us are realistically unlikely to achieve on our own). For sure, money has been one of the more frequent sources of strain in my own marriage--not just because we too both had significant grad school debt, but also because we come from very different financial backgrounds family-wise, and thus do not see eye-to-eye on what constitutes a Red Flag where money is concerned. It's tough. And the double whammy of soaring education costs and poorer "real" job prospects is only making things worse.
 
Unless you come from upper-middle or better backgrounds with parents who are willing to cough up substantial dough, or are on a full-ride scholarship somewhere, you are going to be in debt. Part time jobs, no matter how you add up the hours and pay will simply not cover much more than your living or extracurricular expenses.

ETA: What LivLuv said about getting married with a huge debt load - I have a friend who just got married this past November, and she owed $42K at the time still, and her husband worked 2 jobs for 3 years and managed to reduce his debt load to "only" about $6K at the time. But she was saying that this debt would mean putting off having children for a minimum of 5 years, if not a lot longer, because in her experience, all the other young couples she knew who had huge debt loads ($50K+) and ended up having kids very early on had a terrible time of it, and were largely very unhappy and feeling overburdened.
 
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sorry you have to deal with that right now livluv.

and I can't say it's encouraging because I see myself in that same position in a few years. I keep my grades up, do honors, join clubs, pay half the fees for a somewhat expensive sport and will be paying all of them once I get a job...all in the hopes that, among other things, it'll help me get scholarship money. Because I know my parents can't or won't or shouldn't pay for my tuition and it keeps getting higher...

question: is it anyone's experience that having a degree in general is largely more important than where it's from? I ask because I'm starting to think it'd be a better idea to consider colleges within my state, so I can graduate w/out 30000 in debt (hope scholarship). In fact I think UGA is known for being affordable in-state and it's a good school actually...

the minimum wage is so off, they could double it and it wouldn't be enough in my opinion. people will say that you're not meant to live and support a family on that kind of job, but a lot of people don't have a choice it seems
 
With a few specific exceptions, I believe that it is a terrible idea for college kids to work during the school year. Manning a cash register or being a salesperson at Best Buy doesn't pay well and doesn't do anything to enhance one's career prospects.

Not everyone has that luxury, unfortunately.

As LivLuv has already stated, it's very difficult to make it as a college student these days.

I have nowhere near the debt she has, but I do have student loan debt. I graduated college in 2002 and still haven't found a decent paying job. I'm currently working multiple part-time jobs with no health benefits while searching for a full-time job. As I can't afford to live on my own right now, I had to move back in with my mom. I also can just afford to make my monthly student loan payment--I owe a little less than $12,000 now to Sallie Mae, and that's after paying on the loan since February of 2003, when my grace period ended.

So it hasn't ended for me...but I still have hope for the future.

Anyway, while I attended college, I worked full-time hours at a part-time retail job (only place that would hire me, someone with no experience and no degree, which is ironic now because even with a degree I still can't find a job because I'm told that I don't have enough experience) with no health benefits and was a full-time student. I went to class more than three or four hours a day :) and while it was very difficult, I'm glad I experienced that because it made me realise the value of hard work.

and the minimum wage is still below $6/hr. What the fuck.

How they expect people to live off this is beyond my understanding. I lived with roommates and in subsidized housing during college to make ends meet, but I don't have that option now. It makes no sense to pay people that little for a full day's work, especially when they're working retail type jobs.
 
I am glad that this issue is brought up. It is so true in Canada as well as the United States. You know, I could see all of this happening over the course of my thirty years. It is just very sad really.

But there are some saving graces in the crush of life....compromise and asking yourself what is really necessary. We think we need so much stuff but we really don't.

And in regards to college....if you are paying all that money...you better believe in it.
 
VertigoGal said:
question: is it anyone's experience that having a degree in general is largely more important than where it's from? I ask because I'm starting to think it'd be a better idea to consider colleges within my state, so I can graduate w/out 30000 in debt (hope scholarship). In fact I think UGA is known for being affordable in-state and it's a good school actually...
Yes yes yes. If/when you go to graduate school, they will look first at your GPA, GREs/LSATs/whatever, writing samples, and evidence of having a structured plan in mind for your grad studies. Not at where your degree is from. Anyhow, UGA has a fine reputation (plus Athens rocks). And a dirty secret of many of the Ivies is they same some of the country's worst reputations when it comes to helping their students position themselves for the job market. I went to a big state school too, and did not suffer from it at all.

A good piece of advice is: make a point from the start of not only touching base regularly with whoever your assigned advisors are, but also seeking out other professors whom you feel you can connect to as mentors and sounding boards for your plans for the future. We are not just here to instruct, and we keep open-office hours for a reason.
 
randhail said:
I disagree with the not working while you're in college. Unless you're a science major with labs, you're in class for 3 or 4 hours a day tops. The workload isn't the same for all classes, but there is still an abundance of free time even with all the studying. If a student wants to work a couple hours a day at Best Buy for the discount or for beer money, all the power to him.

The biggest thing college teaches you is how to manage your time because so much of it is spent outside the classroom. Some people can handle it and others can't. I think that alcohol is much more of a reason for people fucking up and not graduating on time than working too much is.

My sense of things could be skewed though because I attended a liberal arts school where an extremely high percentage of students graduated on time and had parents paying for most of the tuition.

if you're working a job or more and trying to juggle classes, sometimes time management issues are totally out of your hands regarding class scheduling or work scheduling, and not even having your priorities 100% in order can help. jobs aren't always flexible, flexible jobs aren't always available.

i'd like to see clearer details regarding time it takes to graduate in relation with hours kids are working. this country is full of idiots who can't pass basic math or write a simple paragraph for history 101. most of the "super-seniors" i've met aren't here because they had to balance 3 jobs, it's because they've spent all their time drinking, which they can afford because mommy and daddy are paying for everything. and i go to a state university where, in theory (my thoughts on how true that is notwithstanding), there are a larger percentage of kids not here on their parents' dime.
 
thanks for the advice. :up:

just to clarify...I didn't mean to imply that UGA is a "second choice" or lower level college or anything. It's a great school and not that easy to get into anymore from what I'm told :)uhoh: ), and yeah Athens is pretty cool. :wink:

but obviously everyone thinks they want to go out of state when they're in high school. ;)
 
This statement stood out:

A college degree is now a crucial pass

A couple of generations ago, a high school diploma was meaningful for entry into the job market - now a college degree is practically essential.

Another factor is the downward pressure of consumerism. Prior generations deferred purchases by years - today, we can finance and get what we want, when we want it.

As for my responsiblity as a parent - I may never own a house or have nice things in life, but I will do my absolute best to pay for my children's education.
 
As for my responsiblity as a parent - I may never own a house or have nice things in life, but I will do my absolute best to pay for my children's education.

:up:

After my own experiences, I feel the same way.

My mom raised me on her own and was able to save a little money to help me with college, but it was nowhere near enough. Not everyone has the ability to pay for their children's education, and those who can are lucky! :) If I ever have children, I hope to be in the position financially to pay for their educations.
 
VertigoGal said:
but obviously everyone thinks they want to go out of state when they're in high school. ;)
Well that's true, I did too, and I did actually, because I went to college in NJ whereas our family home (well, apartment) was in Brooklyn. But it was still close by, and I chose that largely so I could commute home on weekends and help my mother out, which of course I pitied myself for tremendously at the time. But the thrill of "getting away" just isn't worth saddling yourself with an extra $20,000 in debt. It's nice to get out of your hometown if you can, but you do what you have to do.

:hmm: That said, I have to admit had we still been living back in Mississippi...eh...now Oxford has its virtues, but I can't really see myself having been anything but suicidal at the prospect of 4 years at Ole Miss.
 
What school you go to matters in some professional degrees - MBA, law, etc. There, the prestige and reputation of a school nationally are huge intangibles. As far as undergraduate degrees are concerned, I have not noticed much of an advantage in drowning yourself in debt just for the prestige of a name.
 
anitram said:
What school you go to matters in some professional degrees - MBA, law, etc. There, the prestige and reputation of a school nationally are huge intangibles. As far as undergraduate degrees are concerned, I have not noticed much of an advantage in drowning yourself in debt just for the prestige of a name.

The value of professional degrees from certain schools essentially operates on tier system.

For law schools, there are about 5 schools on the top tier, and about 40 some schools on the next tier.

The degree itself is essentially fungible. The connections you make from the school (which come in part from the reputation) are the real value obtained.
 
nbcrusader said:
The connections you make from the school (which come in part from the reputation) are the real value obtained.
I forgot to mention that when I was responding to VertigoGal--letters of reference and other forms of "connections" are crucial in the humanities as well, and one more reason why cultivating a network of mentors is very important.
Wow, I had to look this one up! Fun new word :drool: And it's not even in the American Heritage Dictionary!
 
yolland said:

I forgot to mention that when I was responding to VertigoGal--letters of reference and other forms of "connections" are crucial in the humanities as well, and one more reason why cultivating a network of mentors is very important.

If you're applying to grad school in the arts or sciences, recommendations (how good they are, and especially *who* writes them) are easily the most important part of the package. Obviously going to a big-name school helps in this regard, but if you happen not to go to one of these schools, you want to connect with the best-known profs in your department, and try to work your way up into a stronger graduate school.
 
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Yes, most programs are tiered that way. You have your Top 5 MBAs as well, and so on. I think there you have a definite advantage to attending the school in the highest tier/grouping you can get into. Within the tier itself, you may have personal preferences and probably no matter which one you end up at, you haven't made a mistake.

But with undergraduate schools, I really don't see an advantage so huge in attending a top tiered school vs. a respectable state school, particularly if your studies will go beyond your bachelor's degree. Get a solid GPA, some good relationships with profs willing to be your recommenders, and a good score on whatever entrance exam you need (GMAT, MCAT, LSAT, GRE...), and you will be just fine in your continuing studies, and your debt load may be significantly lower by electing to remain in-state for 4 years.
 
IWasBored said:

i'd like to see clearer details regarding time it takes to graduate in relation with hours kids are working.

At MIT, the published workload is 48 hours/week for 4 years. YMMV.
 
i finished my bachelor degree in may of 2005. the best opportunity i had following graduation was another internship in philadelphia. i jumped at the chance since most people graduating with my degree don't find work in their chosen field. i began this internship with the understanding, as expressed by whom i would be working with, that after a short period of training on his equipment that it would turn into a part-time job. i was ok with this. the field i was persuing required real world experience and i had no qualms about working two jobs to get things started. by september of 2005 i had made $200 in total from this internship/part-time "job" and had relied heavily on my parents for support (something i am none too proud of). i was forced to take more hours at my second job to make myself at least 80-90% independent from my parents. the guy who i was working with wasn't so interested in getting me work after my availability tightened up. i guess a flexible free intern is more appealing than paying someone for part-time work. i now carry the lowest opinion of this man and have become disillusioned with my original plans. luckily, while in school i developed other interests that gave me ideas for new paths. unfortunately i have been unable to find a job in this new path since my degree did not aptly prepare me for a different career. despite going to a liberal arts school and taking a variety of courses in a variety of topics (SOMETHING I BELIEVE VERY STRONGLY IN FOR EVERYONE), my degree was rather specific.

i now stand waiting on financial information for grad school. at this point i might as well add an additional $40,000 of debt to the $20,000 i have from my undergraduate studies. but i won't. if i don't get substantial financial aid from either school i can't go.

plan b. i hope to return to a state school in new york to finish a second bachelor's. not my ideal plan but it seems to be increasingly necessary. this would hopefully only add another $10,000 in debt.

plan c. alternate-alternate career path. again, i'm not even sure i am qualified for a position.

i now view my original degree as a waste of my time and my parent's money. how was i to know 4 years ago? i went to school and studied what i was interested in and what i loved. i changed a lot over those 4 years though and had a suspicion going into my senior year that i might be going in the wrong direction.

it's hard not to regret it. without those 4 years at that school i wouldn't be who i am today. i'm proud of who i am. i'm not proud of the situation i've found (put?) myself in.

the educational system in this country is a joke and most private universities are no more than corporations. $$$ is the bottom line. period. president bush wants this country to crank out more scientists who can propel our society into the coming decades. good luck with that. our economic system will collapse under the weight of their personal debts.

i wish i could do it all differently, but i can't. i've got a $20,000 bill to show for it. probably more.
 
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If I think about all the student debt I have, I will get angry. Very angry.

Then when I think about all my Canadian friends who have no student loan debt and seemingly lots of disposable income, I will get furious. It doesn't make me "proud to be an American."

But, on the bright side, all my student loan debt is with the U.S. Dept. of Education, and they have infinite forbearance / deferment for those who qualify, unlike all private student loan lenders that usually limit it to 2-3 years over the lifetime of the loan.

Melon
 
Can we talk about the elephant in the room?

"[US] Military spending relative to other countries

A comparison of the budgets for the world's greatest military spenders. Note that this comparison is done in US dollars and thus is not adjusted for purchasing power parity.

The current (2005) United States military budget is larger than the military budgets of the next twenty biggest spenders combined, and six times larger than China's, which places second.

The United States and its close allies are responsible for approximately two-thirds of all military spending on Earth (of which, in turn, the U.S. is responsible for two-thirds), and spend 57 times more than the seven so-called "rogue" nations combined (Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan and Syria). Military spending accounts for more than half of the United States' federal discretionary spending, which is all of the U.S. government's money not spoken for by pre-existing obligations. [1]

According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, in 2003 the United States spent approximately 47% of the world's total military spending of US$956,000,000,000.

Relative to the total GDP of the United States, however, the total spending on the military was only 3.7% in 2003. This spending rate has been in a slow decline since peaking in 1944 at 37.8% of GDP. Even during the peak of the Vietnam War the percentage reached only a high of 9.4% in 1968. As a percentage of discretionary spending, the US outlays for defense are also at a relatively low level. In 1972, for example, the percentage was 72.9%."
 
the educational system in this country is a joke and most private universities are no more than corporations. $$$ is the bottom line. period. president bush wants this country to crank out more scientists who can propel our society into the coming decades. good luck with that. our economic system will collapse under the weight of their personal debts.[/B]



Why do you hate freedom?
 
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