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Old 05-18-2004, 10:41 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


I essentially agree with this. However, the concept of true consent should be examined (BVS has touched on this in other threads) to understand if the feeling of appropriateness truly comes from the women, or if it comes from husbands, fathers, socitety, etc.
Yes--good clarification. I think you're right about that.
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Old 05-18-2004, 11:03 PM   #17
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
Yes there are a few who have posted in here.

And ladies your status is safe....the clerics have spoken.

[Q]A conservative Iranian cleric has denounced the "moral depravity" of owning a dog, and called for the arrest of all dogs and their owners.
Dogs are considered unclean in Islamic law and the spread of dog ownership in Westernised secular circles in Iran is frowned upon by the religious establishment.

[/Q]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/mid...st/2326357.stm
Man...they're worse than the Mosaic Law after a while. I think it is safe to say that Islam hates everything and everyone. :P

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Old 05-18-2004, 11:49 PM   #18
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Haha, Melon - for a second there I thought you were joking.
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Old 05-19-2004, 07:33 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Yes there are a few who have posted in here.

And ladies your status is safe....the clerics have spoken.

[Q]A conservative Iranian cleric has denounced the "moral depravity" of owning a dog, and called for the arrest of all dogs and their owners.
Dogs are considered unclean in Islamic law and the spread of dog ownership in Westernised secular circles in Iran is frowned upon by the religious establishment.

[/Q]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/mid...st/2326357.stm


I had heard they felt that way about dogs before but had hoped things had changed. As an animal lover, that makes me sick and angry.

And I'm still fuming over the woman thing too. Not feeling to0 cool toward that culture

Quote:
Originally posted by melon
Man...they're worse than the Mosaic Law after a while. I think it is safe to say that Islam hates everything and everyone. :P
Sure looks that way, doesn't it? Who do they like, only men, but only if they grow a beard and wear their turban in public?
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Old 05-19-2004, 07:44 AM   #20
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We also had a flareup here in VA with the driver license thing Verte mentioned in Alabama, only it wasn't the hair, it was the face! They demanded their 'right' to wear their veils over their face in the pictures! The state fought it, saying it was ridiculous, it was a PICTURE ID and we have to see facial features to identify you, not a piece of black cloth! That only makes sense, I mean, you do have to see the person's face to identify them It's like bank robbers who wear a hankerchief over their face so they won't be recognized. I think it came out that they had to show their face, the one on their head wasn't so much of a problem, it was the face one.

But what I want to know is, if any Islamic woman adheres so strictly to those rules that she demands to keep her face covered, how is she allowed to drive a car in the first place? I'd think that was against the rules!
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Old 05-19-2004, 07:50 AM   #21
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Originally posted by U2Kitten
While they may not be idiots, I have a hard time believing most of them actually don't mind this treatment, and fear of reprisal is behind most of the compliance. In some places, a woman can be severely beaten by her husband or male relative or even legally killed for going against these traditions
I agree.
I welcome anyone to yell at me, but I think it is dangerous territory to use the comfort of 'respecting cultures' as a nod of acceptance, while quietly finding it terribly difficult to swallow. Perhaps I am contradicting even myself here, as I like anyone hope to always respect other cultures. Not though, at the price of someone else's freedom. I'd rather be more close minded to culture than quieten the voice inside me which says this is wrong.
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Old 05-19-2004, 10:39 AM   #22
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The law we had the dispute over was strictly a headscarf thing, and didn't deal with veils over the face. You can't see the road if you're wearing a veil, and they use the whole veiling issue to keep women from driving in Saudi Arabia (among other "reasons" why women "shouldn't" drive in that country). The founder of modern Turkey, Ataturk, felt like he had to make Turkey strictly a secular state to give women equal rights. So there are many obstacles between women in many of the Islamic countries and equal rights. Sultana lost one of her best friends to an "honor killing"; the girl was only around men she did not know, and since she was a virgin the father was allowed to dispense "justice" in the matter. They drowned her in the family swimming pool. I cannot imagine living with all of this in my life. It's truly hellish. Still, especially right now, we should be careful about what we say about Muslims as a whole. I read about a mosque leader in Oregon who's originally from Bangladesh yesterday. He's funny, very low-key, friendly and very forgiving of negative attitudes towards Muslims, and loves his adopted country, the U.S, dearly. He makes all of his decisions with his wife. Just because is happening in Muslim countries doesn't mean it's OK to make blanket statements about "Muslims". We are in a Muslim nation right now, Iraq, and there has recently been a real PR disaster between us and them, based on culturally sensitive stuff. We don't need to make a bad situation worse.
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Old 05-19-2004, 12:31 PM   #23
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That story of the girl being drowned is terrible

I never meant to make any blanket statements, I always said 'many' and 'some' and I only mean the ones who practice those things. When I started this thread it was out of sympathy for women victimized by those primitive, unjust ways.

I heard a story of a girl being thrown into a well by her father and brother. They said they had to kill her for the honor of their family. That is sad.
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Old 05-19-2004, 01:10 PM   #24
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U2Kitten I understand that you're not making blanket statements. It sounds like Gene Simmons may have, which is unfortunate since he's famous.
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Old 05-19-2004, 01:10 PM   #25
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i think if you are forced to do anything the whole of your childhood, you begin liking it - atleast this experiment suceeds 99% of the time.

perhaps that is the only way hows religions gets its followers..
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Old 05-19-2004, 01:11 PM   #26
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Thanks Verte

I don't know what else Simmons said, maybe BAW will post it if she finds it.
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Old 05-19-2004, 02:35 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten


I don't know what else Simmons said, maybe BAW will post it if she finds it.

gene simmons comments


I thought it about this for a while yesterday and felt that since this thread was specifically about his comments relating to women in the Muslim world, posting his other comments might be too off topic and I didn't want to totally derail the thread.

But I guess it can't hurt to post a link to a news story about what he said
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Old 05-19-2004, 03:00 PM   #28
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Simmons comments describing Islam as a "vile culture" are disgusting. The question of women's rights in predominantly Muslim countries is an interesting and relevant discussion, but the way Simmons approaches the subject is simply offensive and inflammatory. In any case, the idea of Gene Simmons professing to be a champion of women's rights is frankly laughable.
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Old 05-19-2004, 04:48 PM   #29
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Simmons' remarks are disgusting and ignorant. Since when did he give a damn about women's rights in the first place?
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Old 05-19-2004, 06:31 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2Kitten
Who do they like, only men, but only if they grow a beard and wear their turban in public?
You are talking about Sikhs.
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