Geldof on Bush

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Dreadsox

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[Q]GELDOF America doesn't have a lack of empathy; they just don't know the issues as well. Actually, today I had to defend the Bush Administration in France again. They refuse to accept, because of their political ideology, that he has actually done more than any American President for Africa. But it's empirically so. [/Q]

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1074085-2,00.html
 
diamond said:
good article dread.:up:


we do need to do more..

db9

I agree....but I find it so incredibly sad at the number of threads that would lead one to believe that Bush has not been active on the African issue.
 
Dreadsox said:


I agree....but I find it so incredibly sad at the number of threads that would lead one to believe that Bush has not been active on the African issue.

My only beef with Bush on the Africa issue is that he hasn't exactly gotten his party behind it. And given the political environment currently where it seems if you don't follow the president's lead, then you really aren't a Republican, I have to wonder how serious he is about the issue. Is he really serious about the issue or is he using it to keep up his "compassionate" label?
 
I think he seems to be serious, but he hasn't forced Congress to follow thru and up until recently they kowtowed to him on every other issue. If he wasn't going to lose maybe Bono should engage the Hammer in a Christian to Christian discussion.:wink:
 
He does have a point. My favorite outlandish Libertarian.

Reviving the Foreign-aid Racket

By Patrick J. Buchanan

05/15/05 - - "Debt Cut Is Set for Poorest Nations" was the headline in Sunday's Washington Post over the lead story. "The world's wealthiest nations," wrote Paul Blustein, "agreed yesterday to cancel more than $40 billion in debts that some of the world's poorest nations owe to international lenders – a move inspired by the belief that full debt forgiveness is necessary to give those countries a chance to escape the trap of hunger, disease and economic stagnation." Sounds wonderful.

Alan Cowell's story in the New York Times explained: "The deal [is] expected to ease the 18 poorest countries' annual debt burdens by $1.5 billion. They are Benin, Bolivia, Burkina Faso, Ethiopia, Ghana, Guyana, Honduras, Madagascar, Mali, Mauritania, Mozambique, Nicaragua, Niger, Rwanda, Senegal, Tanzania, Uganda and Zambia. All must take anticorruption measures."

It is hard not to break out laughing at that last line.

This $40 billion debt write-off is being hailed as the most magnanimous act since the Marshall Plan. But there is another way to see it: George Bush signed onto one of the biggest bailouts in history. For, here, children, is what has just gone down:

First, that $40 billion was squandered or stolen by the most corrupt regimes and biggest thieves in the Third World. The money is gone. We shall never see it again. And all the wastrels and crooks who got away with it will not be pursued.

Second, the idiot-bankers at the IMF, World Bank and African Development Bank who failed to do due diligence when they made the $40 billion in loans, and lied about how good the loans were, will not be exposed and prosecuted, or tarred and feathered as they should.

Third, the IMF, World Bank and African Development Bank will see all their lost funds replenished, so they can start flying around to those same exotic countries and capitals, shelling out new loans to the same crowd of crooks and incompetents, or their successors.

Fourth, American taxpayers will have to pony up the cash for this historic bailout of the international banks.
Why is this happening? Because George Bush owes Tony Blair, and because Blair, bless his socialist soul, believes in the salvific power of foreign aid and has to bring home some bacon to show his skeptical countrymen the "special relationship" between the two is not that of master and poodle.

Make no mistake. This not a bailout of Africa's poor or Latin American peasants. This is a bailout of the IMF, the World Bank and the African Development Bank. They will get the money to replace their lost loans. As in a Monopoly game where the rules are thrown out, they will be handed new money to play with. Bush and Blair are bailing out failed global institutions run by the highest-paid bureaucrats on earth.

What should have been done?

The IMF, World Bank and ADB should have been held to the same standards as any U.S. government bank that squandered capital entrusted to its care. Congressional auditors should have gone over their books, looked at the bad loans, looked at the backup provided and statements made at the time by lending officers, then let the American people know whether they had been faithful custodians of our tax dollars or clowns who ought not to be trusted with kids' lunch money. If the banks failed, they should be forced to undergo the same discipline and downsizing as any public bank that made similar unsecured loans and lost $40 billion.

At the least, we should shut down the World Bank-IMF country club in Montgomery County, Md. – and make them all travel coach.

But none of this is going to happen. All three of these institutions will soon be back at the same game, and their critics will be denounced as hard-hearted conservatives who lack compassion for the world's poor.

When an American worker has to take a hit for every foolish or failed investment in the family portfolio or 401K, why do international bankers and bureaucrats work with a safety net and always get a bailout? Why do they never have to answer or apologize for the follies they commit? By all means, give the African people debt relief. But why let the lenders who lied and lost the money off the hook?

In the last analysis, it is Congress that has failed in its stewardship of the money entrusted to it by the most generous people on earth. A self-confident government would not give the IMF, World Bank or African Development Bank another dime. Let them call us names.

Unfortunately, we have a Congress that cannot say no to any demand for foreign aid in the name of the "world's poorest" and a U.S. government that cannot stand up to a moral shakedown.

© 2005 Creators Syndicate, Inc.
 
Pat Buchanan is most certainly not a libertarian. He is a paleo-conservative; isolationist and racist.
 
Here's the rest of what was said in that same article about Mr. Bush:



WHICH OF THE G-8 LEADERS DO YOU THINK REMAINS THE TOUGHEST NUT TO CRACK?

BONO The most important and toughest nut is still President Bush. He feels he's already doubled and tripled aid to Africa, which he has. But he started from far too low a place. He can stand there and say he paid at the office already. He shouldn't, because he'll be left out of the history books. But it's hard for him because of the expense of the war and the debts. But I have a hunch that he will step forward with something. And it'll take somebody like him ...

YOU'RE TRYING TO LOBBY HIM RIGHT NOW, AREN'T YOU?

GELDOF We'll see if it works.



Doesn't seem like a glowing endorsement of Mr. Bush. Let's try to keep partisan politics out of the movement for Africa's future.
 
Bono does seem to be getting more publicly critical of Bush. He dedicated quite a bit of that 2FM interview to it, particularly Iraq, something he's seemed to try very hard to dodge before. I don't think he'd 'accidently' fuck it up, maybe there's more going on there. He threatened Bush from the outset that he'd make noise against him if he didn't get his way with him.
 
you are VERY correct, Earnie Shavers.

As someone who has volunteered for DATA from their beginning and now for ONE, I can tell the buzz around the organizations are definitely NOT as favorable toward Bush as it was in the beginning for exactly the reasons you're alluding to - although he's done more than any other President to help Africa, the Bush administration has broke NEARLY EVERY funding level for these programs!

In other words, Pres. Bush gets maximum good publicity from his Africa policy while quietly cutting the heart out of his Africa programs in the back rooms of the White House!

Why do you think the focus is on the G8 meeting? If Bush and several other European leaders had kept their promise on Africa, Bono and geldof wouldn't be mobilizing us to the streets of Edinburgh.
 
Bono was quoted in some recent article as being "a little disappoinoted with the Bush Administration". While he's not going to get into mindless Bush-bashing I do thiink he's capable of candor on this. I'm tired of liberals who bash Bono for talking to Bush, and I think their criticism is misdirected.
 
Jamila, my beef with the arguements you're presenting is this: Bush and DATA represent two entirely different things. Bono/DATA/ONE represent the people suffering in the third world and Pres. Bush represents the general will of the American people. Sad as it is, most American people are more concerned with the war (either for or against), health care, education, homeland security, etc, than they are for African aid. You can repeatedly bash Bush b/c he didn't do what Bono wants, but last time I checked Bono is not an American citizen. Honestly, I'm surprised at the amount Bono HAS been able to influence Bush over the past few years.
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:
Bush and DATA represent two entirely different things. Bono/DATA/ONE represent the people suffering in the third world and Pres. Bush represents the general will of the American people.

A very good point.
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:
Jamila, my beef with the arguements you're presenting is this: Bush and DATA represent two entirely different things. Bono/DATA/ONE represent the people suffering in the third world and Pres. Bush represents the general will of the American people. Sad as it is, most American people are more concerned with the war (either for or against), health care, education, homeland security, etc, than they are for African aid. You can repeatedly bash Bush b/c he didn't do what Bono wants, but last time I checked Bono is not an American citizen. Honestly, I'm surprised at the amount Bono HAS been able to influence Bush over the past few years.

That was a really good post

I'm not quite sure if I like what Bono said about Bush "being left out of the history books"
Is that the point of all of this? To be recognized as the saviour of africa?
I think the point is saving lives. :shrug:
Not saving face
Trust me, Im more likely to jump on the bono bandwagon than probably a lot of you but I dont think he has a much a right as a US citizen to tell Bush what he should do with our tax money.
We're giving, and I think Bush is the kind of person that wants to see results before he starts pumping more into something

Wow, this is like the first time ive ever come off as a bushie I think :lol:
 
I'll probably get flamed for this but, I don't see why you get angry when he doesn't do anything about Africa. I am very happy that he has done something. But in reality he didn't sign on to be president of the USA to help Africa; it isn't one of the requirements.
 
u2bonogirl said:


That was a really good post

I'm not quite sure if I like what Bono said about Bush "being left out of the history books"
Is that the point of all of this? To be recognized as the saviour of africa?
I think the point is saving lives. :shrug:
Not saving face
Trust me, Im more likely to jump on the bono bandwagon than probably a lot of you but I dont think he has a much a right as a US citizen to tell Bush what he should do with our tax money.
We're giving, and I think Bush is the kind of person that wants to see results before he starts pumping more into something

Wow, this is like the first time ive ever come off as a bushie I think :lol:

Hehe, thanks for the support! I fully support Bono and everything he's done, but I feel like his efforts and resources could be more effectively used through channels like DATA and the ONE campaign. Even something like that MTV Diary he did....so many people I know who never cared about Bono or Africa before that have told me that really changed them. I know he likes to use his star power on the politicians, but in the end, it's the normal citizens like us that will decide. He can't have his cake and eat it too, so to speak. He talks about getting Americans to vote on these issues and force politicians to address them, but it seems like he's spending more and more of his time trying to work from the top down instead of the other way around. The Heart of America Tour - now that was a good idea. I was lucky and saw it twice. That really got people involved and made people think. Bono can rant and rant to Bush for days, but at the end of the day, that means little to the average American trying to understand these issues and what can be done to help.
 
BrownEyedBoy said:
I'll probably get flamed for this but, I don't see why you get angry when he doesn't do anything about Africa. I am very happy that he has done something. But in reality he didn't sign on to be president of the USA to help Africa; it isn't one of the requirements.
:up:
No flames from my direction

Once again, I cant believe Im actually talking bush up :huh:

I think that its imperative that we do give towards poverty. We are a rich country and if we didnt give it would be absolutely ridiculous.
But when is it enough? When will we actually be giving enough?
Where I grew up there are familys living in poverty. The job economy sucks. But I dont see people making as big a deal out of american poverty as they do of other nations.
Poverty is poverty no matter where it is, and I think its important to take care of your country as well as giving excess :shrug:
But I dont know what Im talking about anyway. Im grossly uninformed compared to most people in here
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:


Hehe, thanks for the support! I fully support Bono and everything he's done, but I feel like his efforts and resources could be more effectively used through channels like DATA and the ONE campaign. Even something like that MTV Diary he did....so many people I know who never cared about Bono or Africa before that have told me that really changed them. I know he likes to use his star power on the politicians, but in the end, it's the normal citizens like us that will decide. He can't have his cake and eat it too, so to speak. He talks about getting Americans to vote on these issues and force politicians to address them, but it seems like he's spending more and more of his time trying to work from the top down instead of the other way around. The Heart of America Tour - now that was a good idea. I was lucky and saw it twice. That really got people involved and made people think. Bono can rant and rant to Bush for days, but at the end of the day, that means little to the average American trying to understand these issues and what can be done to help.
And the truth is that so many people dont respect bush they would read into his motivations if he went along with what bono wants, instead of just going with it.
I went and saw Bono speak in Portland Oregon on the aids in africa and it was awesome! People left there feeling the need to do something about it, and I think thats a great way to get support
Not only do africans need money, they need education! You cant just keep feeding into a bad system and expect good results
Ack, I dont even know where Im going with any of this
 
Jamila said:


Doesn't seem like a glowing endorsement of Mr. Bush. Let's try to keep partisan politics out of the movement for Africa's future.

I am just curious.....

You said some of the most hurtfull things about me in this forum about my commitment to Africa.

Are you willing to put partisan politics aside?
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:
Jamila, my beef with the arguements you're presenting is this: Bush and DATA represent two entirely different things. Bono/DATA/ONE represent the people suffering in the third world and Pres. Bush represents the general will of the American people. Sad as it is, most American people are more concerned with the war (either for or against), health care, education, homeland security, etc, than they are for African aid. You can repeatedly bash Bush b/c he didn't do what Bono wants, but last time I checked Bono is not an American citizen. Honestly, I'm surprised at the amount Bono HAS been able to influence Bush over the past few years.

I am frustrated about the apathy when I speak to people about Africa. I get many who feel that we have enough problems at home to take care of.

I think President Bush is in a tough place, where he is stuck between doing right by the will of the people. Most Americans are isolationists at heart in my opinion.

Bono has his job to do too. Mr. Geldoff said some very nice things about the President. It contrasts the consistent negativity towards the President, who has NO CONTROL over what the congress decides to approve. He as President can make his suggestions, but that does not mean he will get what he wants.
 
Well, I bet if Africa had that little liquid-thing..ah, what's it called again....OIL???, the Bush administration would be willing to do whole lot more than it is now.

As for national social situations deserving attention as well, sure, totally agree but:
a) there's such a thing as national and INTERnational politcs, for both are budgets available, one doesn't have to interfere with the other.

b) a whole lot of money is going into the war in Iraq that, following the same logic, could be well spent in the USA.
 
the soul waits said:

b) a whole lot of money is going into the war in Iraq that, following the same logic, could be well spent in the USA.

As a teacher I get pissed when I think about the amount of money we beg for and fight for and scrape for.

Then the war comes and its like there is money just laying around to send over there, and I have kids coming to school hungry.

So I get pissed about this too.
 
Bono's trip to Africa with Paul O'Neill was incredibly inspiring to me. I wouldn't know anything about the situation in Africa if it hadn't been for that trip and all the publicity it got. I had no idea that it only cost about $1,000 to build a well that provided clean water, and I didn't know anything about the scope of the water crisis in Africa. If nothing else comes from Bono's relationship with Bush we'll at least have some people out there who will raise money for wells until everyone in Africa has clean water.
 
As a response to the comments that Bono is not a US-citizen and is maybe not the best placed person to speak to Bush about African awareness- my thought there is :
Isn't it a shame that it takes an Irish mann a famous man, a man who's followed by media, to confont this topic to your President this as opposed to one of your own people?

These organisations have been working for years and years, with US citizens working hard at these goals for a long time, with results, no doubt, yet it takes an Irish-man to get Bush involved.
 
Dreadsox said:


As a teacher I get pissed when I think about the amount of money we beg for and fight for and scrape for.

Then the war comes and its like there is money just laying around to send over there, and I have kids coming to school hungry.

So I get pissed about this too.


I come from an area where parents cant afford to clothe their children properly, or buy them school supplies. Where they cant afford enough teachers at the high school to offer enough credits to graduate, and where they cant even afford paper to make copy's of assignments on since the school cant afford more than one text book per class.
they have no electives
the middle school has no sports and kids are dropping out and dealing drugs.
I would love to see some money given to areas like that to give the kids a better chance at having a life other than getting high and arrested :sigh:
 
BrownEyedBoy said:
I'll probably get flamed for this but, I don't see why you get angry when he doesn't do anything about Africa. I am very happy that he has done something. But in reality he didn't sign on to be president of the USA to help Africa; it isn't one of the requirements.

Apparently, it also isn't one of his requirements to help Americans either. Those hundreds of billions spent on Iraq would have gone a long way to make life in America better.

Melon
 
the soul waits said:
As a response to the comments that Bono is not a US-citizen and is maybe not the best placed person to speak to Bush about African awareness- my thought there is :

No no...that's not what I meant. Bono is welcome to say whatever he pleases to whomever he pleases whenever he pleased. I applaud his effort...all of it, 100%. What I mean is that it seems like people (and yes I feel Jamilla specifically) take it personally that Bush doesn't do exactly what Bono says when he says to do it...like it means Bush is an entirely evil person who doesn't care about Africa at all b/c he didn't do what Bono said. What I meant was (unfortunately) Bush does not answer to Bono, he answers to the American public, who, with the exception of a few (though a lot on Interference, largely thanks to Bono), don't care about Africa. And it's not even so much that they don't care....they just have other issues that are higher up on their list of priorities (see Tara's posts for plenty of legit examples). To me, the third world is a priority, but I'm also clever enough to see that I'm in a very small minority as far as America in general. So the problem, IMO, is not ONE man (Bush), it's the American public.
 
To be honest, I don't think Bush really does give a rat's ass about Africa. If he does anything at all, it will be due to pressure from high profile people like Bono who won't let the issue rest until something is done about it. But I really don't think Bush is particularly passionate about the issue at all.

Melon
 
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