Geldof on Bush

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Dreadsox said:


I think President Bush is in a tough place, where he is stuck between doing right by the will of the people. Most Americans are isolationists at heart in my opinion.

I agree with this.

I cannot really fault Bush for the apathy and complacency of the American people. I have never been his biggest fan, but I think to square the blame on him ignores the issues of why these grassroots campaigns have really not been that effective so far.
 
u2bonogirl said:
But what does the intention matter if the job gets done anyway?
:shrug:
can we stop questioning motivation and just be happy that anything is being done at all?

But is there anything really being done? I think we can question his motivation if he's just using it for political/ appearances reasons.
 
I agree that there are many problems in our countries with people living with little money or job opportunities. But this poverty is relative poverty, compared to our society. Governments spending on problems in their own society is so politically motivated it is ridiculous. It is a different issue.


There are many citizens in North America who indeed live in appalling conditions and are indeed hungry. But the majority of these people don't spend there existence struggling to find enough food just to survive the day. Also, we are fortunate enough to have many services, both private and public, to provide some assistance to the impoverished. I am fairly certain there are not tens of millions in this situation like in the rest of the world. This is the kind of extreme poverty the Bono, Geldof and the One movement are trying to eliminate. They aren't trying to put Tommy Hilfiger clothes on the back of every child, or provide jobs, or allow everyone to live in a two bedroom condo. It is about survival, simply that. Too many people are dying because they lack basic essentials like food and clean water. Once they have achieved this basic necessity, they can put their energies to improving their lives which at the moment is be drained in a simple struggle to live. Many of these countries are geographically isolated, have poor agricultural conditions, and lack any infrastructure to have a bountiful food source like we are so blessed with in the Western world.

And the amount of money requested in the form of aid is only 0.7% of the budgets. No one is asking for a tithe of 10%. At the end of the day, if the world stands by and does not act by continuing to allow the deaths of millions of people, we will have failed the people in need and ourselves.

"Around here our ambition throws an non-perishable item in a donation bin at Christmas
And it pats itself on the fucking back because it thinks it's done something decent"

--Matthew Good "21st Century Living"
 
I don't know if it is American isolationism, as much as many Americans are tired of politicians shifting the focus from domestic problems time and time again to foreign policy.

To say that Americans don't care would be a misnomer. We do care. But a lot of us are very cynical. Foreign problems never seem to get solved, despite them taking up political time, and we continue to see our own nation go down the toilet.

On the other hand, maybe Bush should get caught up with more foreign issues. Then he wouldn't be able to appoint any more extremists to political positions or continue to proverbially beat up on homosexuals as a way to please fundamentalists.

Melon
 
How in God's name can people compare 'poverty' of the Western world to poverty in Africa?

We are talking about two extremely different types of poverty and two seperate causes. A person that lives on the streets can get a job, can eat, can get shelter, though there are underlying problems, and i understand them, i would never make the comparison to thrid world poverty!

We live in a place that is so blessed with resourses, be them education, agriculture, oil and gas. We, as someone i cant remember said, won the lottery of life being born in the western world.

It boggles my mind, and frankly, pisses me off when people make excuse like some of the ones in previous posts. People say, 'well you cant blame us for being synical since time and time again the money has been wasted, fuck that, i will blame you. Now dont get me wrong this money should be made to good use, but it should be put to some use.
 
bonoman said:
How in God's name can people compare 'poverty' of the Western world to poverty in Africa?

We are talking about two extremely different types of poverty and two seperate causes. A person that lives on the streets can get a job, can eat, can get shelter, though there are underlying problems, and i understand them, i would never make the comparison to thrid world poverty!

We live in a place that is so blessed with resourses, be them education, agriculture, oil and gas. We, as someone i cant remember said, won the lottery of life being born in the western world.

The point a few of us are trying to make is that it's not about us, we're not talking about us here. Do you think the average American really REALLY cares about African aid? I don't. I'm not talking about myself b/c I'm not an average American. I have been blessed and my parents are more upper-middle class if you will, but take someone who barely makes enough to feed their kids, may or may not be able to afford health care, is probably in some amount of debt, the parent (or both if they're lucky to have two) is working very hard full time and probably spends any extra time attending to the needs of the children....this the the group I'm talking about. I'm not excusing them or saying their situation makes it OK to only care about themselves, all I'm saying is that's how it is right now and the real trick has been/will be changing that mentality and trying to get people who have their own daily struggles to move beyond themselves and their own bubbles and think of the world as a whole.

Yes, "we" who can afford internet access and computers and Interference subscriptions ARE blessed by our Western world, but we are lucky ones; we are not the average.

No, the poverty is no where near comparable, but that's not the point. No one's going to disagree with you there.
 
Thats an excellent point :yes:
The people barely keeping their heads above water usually arent the ones looking around for somebody to save
And a lot of people who have the means to help are so consumed by their things that their world doesnt extend past their recreation
:sigh:
It feels like theres no answers
 
u2bonogirl said:

:sigh:
It feels like theres no answers

Coming from someone who despised every second of all my Econ classes and has no experience in such, I say.......tax. :D :shrug: Then people don't have to care if they don't want to/can't. Say every citizen had to give just $25 extra (and that includes kids so if you've got three kids and yourself you're taxed $100 more than normal).....I'm not sure how many people are in the USA, but that sounds like a pretty nice start.
 
I totally disagree that the people that are middle class dont care. I would say middle class and lower middle class care more the upper to rich people.

The middle class works for their luxuries and can, somewhat in a minor way, relate to people in Africa.

I understand what your saying, and im not blaming you, what i am trying to get across in a general point is that complaining about having to work long hours when compared to starving is laughable. I know you understand that, but it still pisses me off.
 
well, Google says the US population next month is 295,734,134 so that times $25 = $7,393,353,350. Not too shabby.
 
bonoman said:
I totally disagree that the people that are middle class dont care. I would say middle class and lower middle class care more the upper to rich people.

But I think there's a difference between caring and acting on that. I'm going to think of my family as an example here....they're all upper-middle class citizens. They all work very hard to make ends meet, but at the end of the day, live a normal, comfortable life. They care about this issue because, honestly, who doesn't believe in helping people? But do they really act? No....not that I can think of. My mom's really into issued that effect children since she's a mother and has worked with other children her entire life. I'd say things like education, health care for children, and gun control laws are on the top of her list. Sure, she knows plenty about the situations in Africa, but when she steps into the voting booth, I don't think there's any way that her caring about African aid is going to effect her vote when she's dead-set on improving education and enforcing stricter gun control. I could do this for all of my relatives.....

I've seen people like the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation give billions of dollars towards issues like African aid...but honestly I've not seen anyone in my family or local community or church community even attempt to address the issue.....very sad. :(
 
I never meant to sound like I was saying that working long hours was comparable.
I was more talking about people who really dont have anything and arent being given an opportunity to do anything with their lives.
I agree that theres a certain obligation to give to those who have nothing if you have so much
 
I'm not presenting a point of view - I was simply clip and pasting the rest of the article that was originally stated.

If you have problems with clip and pasting to represent a point of view, then you need to criticize the original poster too.

Otherwise, you're bordering on being double-standarded.
 
And btw, this is a place where people can voice their opinions - not just some people's opinions, but everyone's.

And I did not "attack" anyone - if you're that touchy about a simple sentence, maybe you need to think about why.
 
I have no idea if you are addressing me or not.

Without a doubt you attacked me months ago when I started a thread about the war. YOU questioned my interest in Africa and my committment.

If you are going to say "put partisan politics aside" I was sincerely curious as to your own feelings about your comments in this forum.

I am not going to go lookling for the exact quote, but there is no other way to take what you said months ago. I am not "touchy" i am wonderng if you are full of hot air, or if you truly have room in your world for someone who does not share your political views?

To be honest...I do not understand your response at all. The article gives Bush credit and Bono wants more. No surprise there.

But the part I quoted.....

[Q]Doesn't seem like a glowing endorsement of Mr. Bush. Let's try to keep partisan politics out of the movement for Africa's future.[/Q] Comes from YOU not the article.
 
It is making a political statement and then curbing debate, now it was in the article but that shouldn't be used and then discarded for future discussion, getting the last word as it were.
 
More quotes...

[Q]"You'll think I'm off my trolley when I say this, but the Bush administration is the most radical, in a positive sense, in the approach to Africa since Kennedy[/Q]
 
"You'll think I'm off my trolley when I say this, but the Bush administration is the most radical, in a positive sense, in the approach to Africa since Kennedy

you gotta love the BoomTown Rat for that one.

he tells it like it is.

db9
 
Everything went NUTZ around here after the TSUNAMI. America mobilized.....

WHy not for AIDS?
 
Dreadsox said:
Everything went NUTZ around here after the TSUNAMI. America mobilized.....

WHy not for AIDS?

Perhaps the tsunami was more graphic. There were piles of dead bodies on the news. AIDS doesn't get that coverage. Plus, the tsunami didn't have the sexual connotations that AIDS does.
 
verte76 said:

Perhaps the tsunami was more graphic. There were piles of dead bodies on the news. AIDS doesn't get that coverage. Plus, the tsunami didn't have the sexual connotations that AIDS does.

yeah, definitely. i also think people in the West found it easier to identify with the problems left in the wake of the tsunami--as a natural disaster, it could have happened anywhere, even here. the people hit by the tsunami were seen as pure, innocent victims, worthy of compassion and aid.

why not for people suffering from AIDS in africa? too easy to blame the victims for being uneducated, promiscous, and backward. if you blame the victims, you don't have to feel as responsible for helping them.
 
Back
Top Bottom