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Old 06-21-2005, 04:37 PM   #31
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Originally posted by Dreadsox


I think President Bush is in a tough place, where he is stuck between doing right by the will of the people. Most Americans are isolationists at heart in my opinion.
I agree with this.

I cannot really fault Bush for the apathy and complacency of the American people. I have never been his biggest fan, but I think to square the blame on him ignores the issues of why these grassroots campaigns have really not been that effective so far.
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Old 06-21-2005, 04:42 PM   #32
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I agree, I think most Americans are isolationists and there's not a damn thing Bush can do about this.
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Old 06-21-2005, 04:43 PM   #33
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But what does the intention matter if the job gets done anyway?

can we stop questioning motivation and just be happy that anything is being done at all?
But is there anything really being done? I think we can question his motivation if he's just using it for political/ appearances reasons.
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Old 06-21-2005, 04:52 PM   #34
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I agree that there are many problems in our countries with people living with little money or job opportunities. But this poverty is relative poverty, compared to our society. Governments spending on problems in their own society is so politically motivated it is ridiculous. It is a different issue.


There are many citizens in North America who indeed live in appalling conditions and are indeed hungry. But the majority of these people don't spend there existence struggling to find enough food just to survive the day. Also, we are fortunate enough to have many services, both private and public, to provide some assistance to the impoverished. I am fairly certain there are not tens of millions in this situation like in the rest of the world. This is the kind of extreme poverty the Bono, Geldof and the One movement are trying to eliminate. They aren't trying to put Tommy Hilfiger clothes on the back of every child, or provide jobs, or allow everyone to live in a two bedroom condo. It is about survival, simply that. Too many people are dying because they lack basic essentials like food and clean water. Once they have achieved this basic necessity, they can put their energies to improving their lives which at the moment is be drained in a simple struggle to live. Many of these countries are geographically isolated, have poor agricultural conditions, and lack any infrastructure to have a bountiful food source like we are so blessed with in the Western world.

And the amount of money requested in the form of aid is only 0.7% of the budgets. No one is asking for a tithe of 10%. At the end of the day, if the world stands by and does not act by continuing to allow the deaths of millions of people, we will have failed the people in need and ourselves.

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Old 06-21-2005, 04:54 PM   #35
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I don't know if it is American isolationism, as much as many Americans are tired of politicians shifting the focus from domestic problems time and time again to foreign policy.

To say that Americans don't care would be a misnomer. We do care. But a lot of us are very cynical. Foreign problems never seem to get solved, despite them taking up political time, and we continue to see our own nation go down the toilet.

On the other hand, maybe Bush should get caught up with more foreign issues. Then he wouldn't be able to appoint any more extremists to political positions or continue to proverbially beat up on homosexuals as a way to please fundamentalists.

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Old 06-21-2005, 07:28 PM   #36
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How in God's name can people compare 'poverty' of the Western world to poverty in Africa?

We are talking about two extremely different types of poverty and two seperate causes. A person that lives on the streets can get a job, can eat, can get shelter, though there are underlying problems, and i understand them, i would never make the comparison to thrid world poverty!

We live in a place that is so blessed with resourses, be them education, agriculture, oil and gas. We, as someone i cant remember said, won the lottery of life being born in the western world.

It boggles my mind, and frankly, pisses me off when people make excuse like some of the ones in previous posts. People say, 'well you cant blame us for being synical since time and time again the money has been wasted, fuck that, i will blame you. Now dont get me wrong this money should be made to good use, but it should be put to some use.
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Old 06-21-2005, 07:44 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonoman
How in God's name can people compare 'poverty' of the Western world to poverty in Africa?

We are talking about two extremely different types of poverty and two seperate causes. A person that lives on the streets can get a job, can eat, can get shelter, though there are underlying problems, and i understand them, i would never make the comparison to thrid world poverty!

We live in a place that is so blessed with resourses, be them education, agriculture, oil and gas. We, as someone i cant remember said, won the lottery of life being born in the western world.
The point a few of us are trying to make is that it's not about us, we're not talking about us here. Do you think the average American really REALLY cares about African aid? I don't. I'm not talking about myself b/c I'm not an average American. I have been blessed and my parents are more upper-middle class if you will, but take someone who barely makes enough to feed their kids, may or may not be able to afford health care, is probably in some amount of debt, the parent (or both if they're lucky to have two) is working very hard full time and probably spends any extra time attending to the needs of the children....this the the group I'm talking about. I'm not excusing them or saying their situation makes it OK to only care about themselves, all I'm saying is that's how it is right now and the real trick has been/will be changing that mentality and trying to get people who have their own daily struggles to move beyond themselves and their own bubbles and think of the world as a whole.

Yes, "we" who can afford internet access and computers and Interference subscriptions ARE blessed by our Western world, but we are lucky ones; we are not the average.

No, the poverty is no where near comparable, but that's not the point. No one's going to disagree with you there.
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Old 06-21-2005, 07:53 PM   #38
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Thats an excellent point
The people barely keeping their heads above water usually arent the ones looking around for somebody to save
And a lot of people who have the means to help are so consumed by their things that their world doesnt extend past their recreation

It feels like theres no answers
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Old 06-21-2005, 07:57 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by u2bonogirl


It feels like theres no answers
Coming from someone who despised every second of all my Econ classes and has no experience in such, I say.......tax. Then people don't have to care if they don't want to/can't. Say every citizen had to give just $25 extra (and that includes kids so if you've got three kids and yourself you're taxed $100 more than normal).....I'm not sure how many people are in the USA, but that sounds like a pretty nice start.
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Old 06-21-2005, 07:57 PM   #40
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I totally disagree that the people that are middle class dont care. I would say middle class and lower middle class care more the upper to rich people.

The middle class works for their luxuries and can, somewhat in a minor way, relate to people in Africa.

I understand what your saying, and im not blaming you, what i am trying to get across in a general point is that complaining about having to work long hours when compared to starving is laughable. I know you understand that, but it still pisses me off.
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Old 06-21-2005, 08:00 PM   #41
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well, Google says the US population next month is 295,734,134 so that times $25 = $7,393,353,350. Not too shabby.
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Old 06-21-2005, 08:06 PM   #42
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Originally posted by bonoman
I totally disagree that the people that are middle class dont care. I would say middle class and lower middle class care more the upper to rich people.
But I think there's a difference between caring and acting on that. I'm going to think of my family as an example here....they're all upper-middle class citizens. They all work very hard to make ends meet, but at the end of the day, live a normal, comfortable life. They care about this issue because, honestly, who doesn't believe in helping people? But do they really act? No....not that I can think of. My mom's really into issued that effect children since she's a mother and has worked with other children her entire life. I'd say things like education, health care for children, and gun control laws are on the top of her list. Sure, she knows plenty about the situations in Africa, but when she steps into the voting booth, I don't think there's any way that her caring about African aid is going to effect her vote when she's dead-set on improving education and enforcing stricter gun control. I could do this for all of my relatives.....

I've seen people like the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation give billions of dollars towards issues like African aid...but honestly I've not seen anyone in my family or local community or church community even attempt to address the issue.....very sad.
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Old 06-21-2005, 08:08 PM   #43
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I never meant to sound like I was saying that working long hours was comparable.
I was more talking about people who really dont have anything and arent being given an opportunity to do anything with their lives.
I agree that theres a certain obligation to give to those who have nothing if you have so much
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Old 06-22-2005, 02:55 AM   #44
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I'm not presenting a point of view - I was simply clip and pasting the rest of the article that was originally stated.

If you have problems with clip and pasting to represent a point of view, then you need to criticize the original poster too.

Otherwise, you're bordering on being double-standarded.
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Old 06-22-2005, 02:59 AM   #45
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And btw, this is a place where people can voice their opinions - not just some people's opinions, but everyone's.

And I did not "attack" anyone - if you're that touchy about a simple sentence, maybe you need to think about why.
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