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Old 06-21-2005, 10:13 AM   #16
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I'll probably get flamed for this but, I don't see why you get angry when he doesn't do anything about Africa. I am very happy that he has done something. But in reality he didn't sign on to be president of the USA to help Africa; it isn't one of the requirements.
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Old 06-21-2005, 10:25 AM   #17
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That was a really good post

I'm not quite sure if I like what Bono said about Bush "being left out of the history books"
Is that the point of all of this? To be recognized as the saviour of africa?
I think the point is saving lives.
Not saving face
Trust me, Im more likely to jump on the bono bandwagon than probably a lot of you but I dont think he has a much a right as a US citizen to tell Bush what he should do with our tax money.
We're giving, and I think Bush is the kind of person that wants to see results before he starts pumping more into something

Wow, this is like the first time ive ever come off as a bushie I think
Hehe, thanks for the support! I fully support Bono and everything he's done, but I feel like his efforts and resources could be more effectively used through channels like DATA and the ONE campaign. Even something like that MTV Diary he did....so many people I know who never cared about Bono or Africa before that have told me that really changed them. I know he likes to use his star power on the politicians, but in the end, it's the normal citizens like us that will decide. He can't have his cake and eat it too, so to speak. He talks about getting Americans to vote on these issues and force politicians to address them, but it seems like he's spending more and more of his time trying to work from the top down instead of the other way around. The Heart of America Tour - now that was a good idea. I was lucky and saw it twice. That really got people involved and made people think. Bono can rant and rant to Bush for days, but at the end of the day, that means little to the average American trying to understand these issues and what can be done to help.
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Old 06-21-2005, 10:28 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
I'll probably get flamed for this but, I don't see why you get angry when he doesn't do anything about Africa. I am very happy that he has done something. But in reality he didn't sign on to be president of the USA to help Africa; it isn't one of the requirements.

No flames from my direction

Once again, I cant believe Im actually talking bush up

I think that its imperative that we do give towards poverty. We are a rich country and if we didnt give it would be absolutely ridiculous.
But when is it enough? When will we actually be giving enough?
Where I grew up there are familys living in poverty. The job economy sucks. But I dont see people making as big a deal out of american poverty as they do of other nations.
Poverty is poverty no matter where it is, and I think its important to take care of your country as well as giving excess
But I dont know what Im talking about anyway. Im grossly uninformed compared to most people in here
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Old 06-21-2005, 10:32 AM   #19
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Hehe, thanks for the support! I fully support Bono and everything he's done, but I feel like his efforts and resources could be more effectively used through channels like DATA and the ONE campaign. Even something like that MTV Diary he did....so many people I know who never cared about Bono or Africa before that have told me that really changed them. I know he likes to use his star power on the politicians, but in the end, it's the normal citizens like us that will decide. He can't have his cake and eat it too, so to speak. He talks about getting Americans to vote on these issues and force politicians to address them, but it seems like he's spending more and more of his time trying to work from the top down instead of the other way around. The Heart of America Tour - now that was a good idea. I was lucky and saw it twice. That really got people involved and made people think. Bono can rant and rant to Bush for days, but at the end of the day, that means little to the average American trying to understand these issues and what can be done to help.
And the truth is that so many people dont respect bush they would read into his motivations if he went along with what bono wants, instead of just going with it.
I went and saw Bono speak in Portland Oregon on the aids in africa and it was awesome! People left there feeling the need to do something about it, and I think thats a great way to get support
Not only do africans need money, they need education! You cant just keep feeding into a bad system and expect good results
Ack, I dont even know where Im going with any of this
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Old 06-21-2005, 02:22 PM   #20
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Doesn't seem like a glowing endorsement of Mr. Bush. Let's try to keep partisan politics out of the movement for Africa's future.
I am just curious.....

You said some of the most hurtfull things about me in this forum about my commitment to Africa.

Are you willing to put partisan politics aside?
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Old 06-21-2005, 02:25 PM   #21
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Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic
Jamila, my beef with the arguements you're presenting is this: Bush and DATA represent two entirely different things. Bono/DATA/ONE represent the people suffering in the third world and Pres. Bush represents the general will of the American people. Sad as it is, most American people are more concerned with the war (either for or against), health care, education, homeland security, etc, than they are for African aid. You can repeatedly bash Bush b/c he didn't do what Bono wants, but last time I checked Bono is not an American citizen. Honestly, I'm surprised at the amount Bono HAS been able to influence Bush over the past few years.
I am frustrated about the apathy when I speak to people about Africa. I get many who feel that we have enough problems at home to take care of.

I think President Bush is in a tough place, where he is stuck between doing right by the will of the people. Most Americans are isolationists at heart in my opinion.

Bono has his job to do too. Mr. Geldoff said some very nice things about the President. It contrasts the consistent negativity towards the President, who has NO CONTROL over what the congress decides to approve. He as President can make his suggestions, but that does not mean he will get what he wants.
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Old 06-21-2005, 02:28 PM   #22
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Well, I bet if Africa had that little liquid-thing..ah, what's it called again....OIL???, the Bush administration would be willing to do whole lot more than it is now.

As for national social situations deserving attention as well, sure, totally agree but:
a) there's such a thing as national and INTERnational politcs, for both are budgets available, one doesn't have to interfere with the other.

b) a whole lot of money is going into the war in Iraq that, following the same logic, could be well spent in the USA.
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Old 06-21-2005, 02:36 PM   #23
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b) a whole lot of money is going into the war in Iraq that, following the same logic, could be well spent in the USA.
As a teacher I get pissed when I think about the amount of money we beg for and fight for and scrape for.

Then the war comes and its like there is money just laying around to send over there, and I have kids coming to school hungry.

So I get pissed about this too.
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Old 06-21-2005, 03:12 PM   #24
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Bono's trip to Africa with Paul O'Neill was incredibly inspiring to me. I wouldn't know anything about the situation in Africa if it hadn't been for that trip and all the publicity it got. I had no idea that it only cost about $1,000 to build a well that provided clean water, and I didn't know anything about the scope of the water crisis in Africa. If nothing else comes from Bono's relationship with Bush we'll at least have some people out there who will raise money for wells until everyone in Africa has clean water.
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Old 06-21-2005, 03:55 PM   #25
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As a response to the comments that Bono is not a US-citizen and is maybe not the best placed person to speak to Bush about African awareness- my thought there is :
Isn't it a shame that it takes an Irish mann a famous man, a man who's followed by media, to confont this topic to your President this as opposed to one of your own people?

These organisations have been working for years and years, with US citizens working hard at these goals for a long time, with results, no doubt, yet it takes an Irish-man to get Bush involved.
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Old 06-21-2005, 03:58 PM   #26
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Originally posted by Dreadsox


As a teacher I get pissed when I think about the amount of money we beg for and fight for and scrape for.

Then the war comes and its like there is money just laying around to send over there, and I have kids coming to school hungry.

So I get pissed about this too.

I come from an area where parents cant afford to clothe their children properly, or buy them school supplies. Where they cant afford enough teachers at the high school to offer enough credits to graduate, and where they cant even afford paper to make copy's of assignments on since the school cant afford more than one text book per class.
they have no electives
the middle school has no sports and kids are dropping out and dealing drugs.
I would love to see some money given to areas like that to give the kids a better chance at having a life other than getting high and arrested
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Old 06-21-2005, 03:59 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
I'll probably get flamed for this but, I don't see why you get angry when he doesn't do anything about Africa. I am very happy that he has done something. But in reality he didn't sign on to be president of the USA to help Africa; it isn't one of the requirements.
Apparently, it also isn't one of his requirements to help Americans either. Those hundreds of billions spent on Iraq would have gone a long way to make life in America better.

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Old 06-21-2005, 04:16 PM   #28
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Originally posted by the soul waits
As a response to the comments that Bono is not a US-citizen and is maybe not the best placed person to speak to Bush about African awareness- my thought there is :
No no...that's not what I meant. Bono is welcome to say whatever he pleases to whomever he pleases whenever he pleased. I applaud his effort...all of it, 100%. What I mean is that it seems like people (and yes I feel Jamilla specifically) take it personally that Bush doesn't do exactly what Bono says when he says to do it...like it means Bush is an entirely evil person who doesn't care about Africa at all b/c he didn't do what Bono said. What I meant was (unfortunately) Bush does not answer to Bono, he answers to the American public, who, with the exception of a few (though a lot on Interference, largely thanks to Bono), don't care about Africa. And it's not even so much that they don't care....they just have other issues that are higher up on their list of priorities (see Tara's posts for plenty of legit examples). To me, the third world is a priority, but I'm also clever enough to see that I'm in a very small minority as far as America in general. So the problem, IMO, is not ONE man (Bush), it's the American public.
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Old 06-21-2005, 04:18 PM   #29
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To be honest, I don't think Bush really does give a rat's ass about Africa. If he does anything at all, it will be due to pressure from high profile people like Bono who won't let the issue rest until something is done about it. But I really don't think Bush is particularly passionate about the issue at all.

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Old 06-21-2005, 04:24 PM   #30
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But what does the intention matter if the job gets done anyway?

can we stop questioning motivation and just be happy that anything is being done at all?
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