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Old 03-29-2006, 01:32 PM   #1
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gay parents "comparable" to straight parents

[q]A report just released by the Evan B. Donaldson Adoption Institute, a prominent adoption policy group, makes the following findings:

**Against a backdrop of increasing public acceptance, social science research concludes that children reared by gay and lesbian parents fare comparably to those of children raised by heterosexuals on a range of measures of social and psychological adjustment.

**Studies are increasing in number and rigor, but the body of research on gay/lesbian parents is relatively small and has methodological limitations. Still, virtually every valid study reaches the same conclusion: The children of gays and lesbians adjust positively and their families function well. The limited research on gay/lesbian adoption points in the same direction.

**Though few states have laws or policies explicitly barring homosexuals from adopting, some individual agencies and workers outside those states discriminate against gay and lesbian applicants based on their own biases or on mistaken beliefs that such prohibitions exist.

**Laws and policies that preclude adoption by gay or lesbian parents disadvantage the tens of thousands of children mired in the foster care system who need permanent, loving homes.

[...]

Based on its findings, the report suggests the following policy initiatives:

**Move to end legal and de facto restrictions on adoption by gays and lesbians. This includes working to expand co-parent and second parent adoption, as well as revising agency policies and practices that may impede their consideration as an adoptive resource.

**Develop clear statements in support of such adoptions, recognizing a "don't ask, don't tell" approach disadvantages parents and, ultimately, their children. And develop contacts with the gay/lesbian community in order to engage in genuine, informed outreach.

**Help workers, supervisors, and agency leaders examine their attitudes and beliefs about gay and lesbian parenting, while affirming the value of these families by including them in outreach, training materials, and parent panels.

**Conduct research to inform the development of resources, training, and support to improve post-adoption success. And work to include and educate children in the process, recognizing that they may encounter prejudice if adopted by gay parents.

http://www.volokh.com/archives/archi...tml#1143650176

[/q]



read the report here: http://adoptioninstitute.org/policy/...r_Children.php
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Old 03-29-2006, 02:19 PM   #2
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It's interesting that this study was funded by the Gill Foundation.

And that Adam Pertman, the Executive Director of the Evan B. Donaldson Adoption Institute, admits that “The research into this subject of gay and lesbian parenting and especially adoptive parenting is really quite limited.”

A limited study funded by an ideological group, with statements even the researchers admit can't be quantified.
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Old 03-29-2006, 02:21 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977
It's interesting that this study was funded by the Gill Foundation.

And that Adam Pertman, the Executive Director of the Evan B. Donaldson Adoption Institute, admits that “The research into this subject of gay and lesbian parenting and especially adoptive parenting is really quite limited.”

A limited study funded by an ideological group, with statements even the researchers admit can't be quantified.
ka-ching.
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Old 03-29-2006, 02:41 PM   #4
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Originally posted by nathan1977
[B]It's interesting that this study was funded by the Gill Foundation.

so this makes it about as credible as the study you pointed towards in the earlier thread? actually, it's more credible because, while the funding might have come from the Gill Foundation, the report itself bears the seal and approval of the Donaldson Adoption Institute which seems fairly devoid of any ideological leanings. this, combined with the fact that they, you know, bothered to do a study as opposed to the group you referenced (who did little more than posit cliches as incontravertable evidence) makes it emminently more credible.


[q]And that Adam Pertman, the Executive Director of the Evan B. Donaldson Adoption Institute, admits that “The research into this subject of gay and lesbian parenting and especially adoptive parenting is really quite limited.”[/q]


yes, it's a new subject, and if anything, pointing out the limitations of the study adds to the overall crediblity and credulity of the report.

ultimately, Nathan, you're not going to be able to run away from the fact that ALL of the growing body of research points towards the fact that children do just as well with gay parents as with straight parents, and the bottom line is the following: competent, loving parenting is better than no parenting.

or is that a biased statement?

are we to suppose you'd rather have older and "special needs" kids who won't otherwise be adopted and languish in the foster-care system until they turn 18 because straight people (who shat them out in the first place) don't want them?
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Old 03-29-2006, 05:49 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
so this makes it about as credible as the study you pointed towards in the earlier thread? actually, it's more credible because, while the funding might have come from the Gill Foundation, the report itself bears the seal and approval of the Donaldson Adoption Institute which seems fairly devoid of any ideological leanings.
I'd be very surprised if a study funded by a particular ideological group churned out results that would run against its particular position.

Quote:
ultimately, Nathan, you're not going to be able to run away from the fact that ALL of the growing body of research points towards the fact that children do just as well with gay parents as with straight parents, and the bottom line is the following: competent, loving parenting is better than no parenting.
All? Most? The majority? The breathless posting of a "study" funded by a gay-rights advocacy group will hardly change my mind.

You and I certainly agree on the competent, loving parenting line. However, as one of the two links you posted said, "It's one thing to say that a married mother and father are the ideal environment for raising children; it's another thing entirely to say that no other environment is suitable when that ideal is unavailable, as it often is for children awaiting adoption."

I've certainly never said the latter (the NCA itself states that such cases should be evaluated on a case by case basis); I've only said the former, and repeatedly advocated that in the case of adoption, where the best interests of the child should be tantamount, the former is still the best situation,and one that should be promoted.

We can go around and around on this, Irvine, though I think our previous conversation about this was probably enough on the subject, at least from my perspective.
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Old 03-29-2006, 06:03 PM   #6
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I think it's discusting that the only rated thread in FYM is this, and it was given 1 star.



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Old 03-29-2006, 06:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977


I'd be very surprised if a study funded by a particular ideological group churned out results that would run against its particular position.



okay, so then we can agree to toss the study you pointed to in the previous thread totally out the window, yes?



[q]All? Most? The majority? The breathless posting of a "study" funded by a gay-rights advocacy group will hardly change my mind.[/q]


yes, most. breathless? well, with homophobic adoption laws pending in 16 states, perhaps i am a little breathless, and perhaps being singled out as an unfit parent on the basis of my sexuality does up the ante a little bit. sorry to be so sensitive, but perhaps if you put yourself in my shoes you'd understand what's at stake, and i'm not going to leave an issue alone simply because it's been discussed before.

what it comes down to is this: there isn't enough evidence, yet, to conclusively show that children are better off with straight parents, or that they are harmed by gay parents. you're free to spin this "tie" as a win, however, the growing body of evidence points to the fact that children do just as well with gay parents as with straight ones, despite the fact taht the current legislation is making the assumption that all straight couples are more parentally fit than all gay couples.

and, ultimately, the promotion of your "ideal," especially because that is the same language employed by those supporting a ban on gay adoption, essentially sends the message that a child is better off in an orphanage or with a drug-addicted mom than having two dads



Quote:
We can go around and around on this, Irvine, though I think our previous conversation about this was probably enough on the subject, at least from my perspective.

i enjoyed our last conversation, and this wasn't a thread intended for you and only you. respond or not, i'm still going to stay on top of this issue because it is tremendously important to me.
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Old 03-29-2006, 06:14 PM   #8
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I think it's discusting that the only rated thread in FYM is this, and it was given 1 star.


uppity homos who don't hate themselves and sit in the back of the bus and get AIDS and die aren't terribly popular in some circles.
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Old 03-29-2006, 06:29 PM   #9
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Originally posted by Irvine511




uppity homos who don't hate themselves and sit in the back of the bus and get AIDS and die aren't terribly popular in some circles.
Is this a statement about FYM?

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Old 03-29-2006, 06:33 PM   #10
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Re: gay parents "comparable" to straight parents

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
[q]A report just released by the Evan B. Donaldson Adoption Institute, a prominent adoption policy group, makes the following findings:

**Against a backdrop of increasing public acceptance, social science research concludes that children reared by gay and lesbian parents fare comparably to those of children raised by heterosexuals on a range of measures of social and psychological adjustment.

**Studies are increasing in number and rigor, but the body of research on gay/lesbian parents is relatively small and has methodological limitations. Still, virtually every valid study reaches the same conclusion: The children of gays and lesbians adjust positively and their families function well. The limited research on gay/lesbian adoption points in the same direction.

**Though few states have laws or policies explicitly barring homosexuals from adopting, some individual agencies and workers outside those states discriminate against gay and lesbian applicants based on their own biases or on mistaken beliefs that such prohibitions exist.

**Laws and policies that preclude adoption by gay or lesbian parents disadvantage the tens of thousands of children mired in the foster care system who need permanent, loving homes.

[...]

Based on its findings, the report suggests the following policy initiatives:

**Move to end legal and de facto restrictions on adoption by gays and lesbians. This includes working to expand co-parent and second parent adoption, as well as revising agency policies and practices that may impede their consideration as an adoptive resource.

**Develop clear statements in support of such adoptions, recognizing a "don't ask, don't tell" approach disadvantages parents and, ultimately, their children. And develop contacts with the gay/lesbian community in order to engage in genuine, informed outreach.

**Help workers, supervisors, and agency leaders examine their attitudes and beliefs about gay and lesbian parenting, while affirming the value of these families by including them in outreach, training materials, and parent panels.

**Conduct research to inform the development of resources, training, and support to improve post-adoption success. And work to include and educate children in the process, recognizing that they may encounter prejudice if adopted by gay parents.

http://www.volokh.com/archives/archi...tml#1143650176

[/q]



read the report here: http://adoptioninstitute.org/policy/...r_Children.php

I guess some people need proof such as this, but when I read it all I could think is "well, DUH!"

It's just so completely obvious.
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Old 03-29-2006, 06:40 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

okay, so then we can agree to toss the study you pointed to in the previous thread totally out the window, yes?...what it comes down to is this: there isn't enough evidence, yet, to conclusively show that children are better off with straight parents
Of course. But if we take into consideration the precedents at play, I think it still makes more sense to focus on placing kids in what has been historically, sociologically, and developmentally the best situation for them. The preponderance of that evidence disagrees with you on this one.

Quote:
perhaps if you put yourself in my shoes you'd understand what's at stake, and i'm not going to leave an issue alone simply because it's been discussed before.
Of course not. I just don't think that the study you pointed to is really evidence of anything, which is why I commented on it.

Quote:
despite the fact taht the current legislation is making the assumption that all straight couples are more parentally fit than all gay couples.
I've actually never argued this. Empirical statements can be dangerous (which is why the NCA promotes evaluating situations on a case-by-case basis).

Quote:
and, ultimately, the promotion of your "ideal"... essentially sends the message that a child is better off in an orphanage or with a drug-addicted mom than having two dads.
I believe that every child waiting to be adopted belongs in the best home situation possible. The backlog of kids waiting to be adopted is heartbreaking. As I mentioned, my wife and I are considering it ourselves. I actually think the problem could be alleviated by promoting adoption more as an option to couples who may not choose it out of A. ignorance (they don't know how to get started), B. shame (they're embarrassed about not being able to have children of their own), or C. concerns about the financial cost.

Quote:
i enjoyed our last conversation, and this wasn't a thread intended for you and only you. respond or not, i'm still going to stay on top of this issue because it is tremendously important to me.
It only makes sense that you would/should. There are a lot of FYM'ers who are interested in this issue. (Even if this thread has only been rated one star -- though I see it's now rated two. Irvine, we're moving up in the world!) I just don't want to waste your time by going around and around on issues we already discussed. (And, perhaps, more eloquently.)
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Old 03-29-2006, 06:47 PM   #12
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Originally posted by Dreadsox


Is this a statement about FYM?



no.

this is a statement about some people who float in here from time-to-time and troll gay threads and who would give a star rating to this thread when, really, NO ONE gives stars to FYM threads.
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Old 03-29-2006, 06:56 PM   #13
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Originally posted by Irvine511




no.

this is a statement about some people who float in here from time-to-time and troll gay threads and who would give a star rating to this thread when, really, NO ONE gives stars to FYM threads.
I was confused....

and

My cousin raised by my aunt and aunt....is doing fine....his marriage is going well, and they are trying for their first child.

Apparently they did not turn him gay.
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Old 03-29-2006, 07:00 PM   #14
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Originally posted by Dreadsox


I was confused....


it's okay. looking back, i can see the possibility misinterpretation. it was also in no way whatsoever intended for Nathan.

glad your cousin is doing well
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Old 03-29-2006, 07:03 PM   #15
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Originally posted by Irvine511




it's okay. looking back, i can see the possibility misinterpretation. it was also in no way whatsoever intended for Nathan.

glad your cousin is doing well
On a side bar, my aunts are taking our family to FL for vacation to Disney!!!!!
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