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Old 04-03-2006, 05:40 PM   #61
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So if they gave a better response would you act the way you all did now or give a different response?
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Old 04-03-2006, 05:56 PM   #62
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I don't see anyone being treated like an outsider because of their views here, Justin. It's really all in how the poster presents themselves. In another recent thread on this subject Irvine and nathan, who disagree completely with one another here, got into a thoroughly respectful debate stretching over several pages, with no personal attacks going on. That's because both of their posts were articulate, well thought through, and well presented. If debate on a topic consists only of rapid-fire, off-the-cuff one liners between people who disagree, it's virtually inevitable that things will get snippy at some point.
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Old 04-03-2006, 06:01 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
So if they gave a better response would you act the way you all did now or give a different response?
Let me put it this way.

What if the same response was put in a thread about interacial couples?
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Old 04-03-2006, 06:03 PM   #64
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Well there is nothing we can do. They have a right to say what they want. Thats all I am going to say.
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Old 04-03-2006, 06:05 PM   #65
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Quote:
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Well there is nothing we can do. They have a right to say what they want.
That's not the point. You made this into a "why do we treat them different" issue.

And that was clearly not what happened. If you can't see that, then I'm sorry.
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Old 04-03-2006, 06:12 PM   #66
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Re: gay parents "comparable" to straight parents

what do you think, we should experiment the theory's validity with children?
A child needs to know who to be called his mum and who is to be called his dad.
Are we sure that if he screams in the night "Mum" and both the parents turns her heads?
I'm not against two mature person who decide to live together but when this includes a child...well, I need to know that there's absolutely no problems along with this.
And it has nothing to share with the old conception of homosexuality as a perversion, but it deals with the children's need to grow in a "regular" family in order to avoid further psychological stressings that goes with the adoption...what do you think other children says (i.e. at school when they will know about his parents? I see an enormous risk of emargination)
Who could decide this? Let's face the truth, being parents it's not a right that the law could give you, it's rather a responsability you accept....
I'm sorry about it and I'm sorry that many friends of mine who are gays or lesbians who have a great heart and parent's love toward children can't have child but there's nothing we could do, really...
We can't sacrifice our children for our egoistical willing of having babies, they are not pet...and love someone means to want the best for him, whatever it means, and accepting it...I'm sure you understand...we need more poofs about it...


And behind this there is according to me a wider legal argument, that's usually misunderstood...sorry for it but I'll be boring for a while....;-)
think about it, laws comes after the reality, laws cannot create reality, and I'm sorry but in reality a gay couple cannot give birth to a child...
If it was possible, then a legislation could be possible to legally protect them, but I can't see it happening...
reflect a while, if it was enough a law to create a Nature Right, wouldn't be enough to issue alaw agaist cancer to erase it from the face of earth? The Right to Life is violated with cancer...
but we all know that's not enough...
Same here, there is a discrimination by the nature but hey what we can do?
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Old 04-03-2006, 06:16 PM   #67
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Re: Re: gay parents "comparable" to straight parents

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Originally posted by tommyvill

A child needs to know who to be called his mum and who is to be called his dad.
Where is this written?

I knew kids raised by grandparents, kids raised by single parents and they all grew up fine not knowing who to call mom and who to call dad.
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Old 04-03-2006, 06:56 PM   #68
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Re: Re: Re: gay parents "comparable" to straight parents

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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Where is this written?

I knew kids raised by grandparents, kids raised by single parents and they all grew up fine not knowing who to call mom and who to call dad.
Well everybody knows many people here I see huh?
No I was talking about concept not about words, and I was referring to "parents figures": a "dad figure" and a "mum figure" to relate...It can be your grandparents it can be your uncles it can be who you want, but believe me, a child needs it...Open up your eyes...and I'm sure that deeply you can see that too...I'm not talking about tolerance, and I'm sure that you know people who grow well with their grandpas and their single parent but the question is: is it the optimum? did they chooose to grew up that way or were they forced by life happening to go like that? That's the question, IMHO...and they managed to grow up well, I won't doubt it...but if they could choose, what would have they choosen? I'm talking about the Archaetypical figures of the male parent and the female parent, that needs to have a "face" to give the child stability and psichological safety, it's written inside of us, if not demonstrated else...
what about those Archaetypical figures havin two same-sex faces? I would experiment with my children... and as your friend, they've been good enough to overcome this, but we should guarantee everyone, EVERYONE to have the same rights and opportunities...your friends have been strong enough...but is everyone strong enough? We should legally protect the weakest ones, shouldn't we? These are all question that has to be answered before I will pronounce on Homoadoptions...
(please notice I'm only asking, I'm not making any statement now...)
When we give a child to adoption, we should destinate him to an "optimum choose family" or something like that, because we're thinking about his future...we must be sure about whose we're "giving" him...and a single doubt for what I see it's enough...
and about single parents, I'm european, and many E.U. countries have no single parents adoption, and I totally agree with it for the "regular family" need of a child I've talked about above...

And to gays and lesbians who are hunger for parenthood, c'mon don't worry, there are many many ways to give love to children without being their parents...even if I know it's hard!
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Old 04-03-2006, 07:00 PM   #69
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Re: Re: Re: Re: gay parents "comparable" to straight parents

Quote:
Originally posted by tommyvill


what about those Archaetypical figures havin two same-sex faces? I would experiment with my children...
Obviously, I meant: "I WOULDN'T experiment with my children..."

eheheh!!!
we were talking about psychology and the freudian lapsun came up!!
Freud's revenge!
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Old 04-03-2006, 07:02 PM   #70
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Re: Re: Re: Re: gay parents "comparable" to straight parents

Quote:
Originally posted by tommyvill


Well everybody knows many people here I see huh?
No I was talking about concept not about words, and I was referring to "parents figures": a "dad figure" and a "mum figure" to relate...It can be your grandparents it can be your uncles it can be who you want, but believe me, a child needs it...Open up your eyes...and I'm sure that deeply you can see that too...
Well if it can be in grandparents or uncles then you just answered your own questions.

Just like single parents, same sex parents can offer opposite sex models for their children through these means.
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Old 04-03-2006, 07:03 PM   #71
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: gay parents "comparable" to straight parents

Quote:
Originally posted by tommyvill
lapsun
ups sorry: Lapsus...
I'm tired and I'd better to go to sleep,
it's night in the Old Continent...
byye!!!
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Old 04-03-2006, 07:05 PM   #72
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Tommyvill you can edit your posts with the 'edit' buttom.
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Old 04-03-2006, 07:16 PM   #73
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: gay parents "comparable" to straight parents

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Well if it can be in grandparents or uncles then you just answered your own questions.

Just like single parents, same sex parents can offer opposite sex models for their children through these means.
They CAN? I need it to be GUARANTEED to accept them to adopt my baby if anything (God forbid!) happens to me!!!
Otherwise
And it must be obvious who is the male and the female, who is the father and the mother, we're talking about a child who has to develop his intelligence, not an einstein who can take the time to think: "hey this guy is a man but he acts like my mum so it's my mum and instead that other guy is my dad..."
For this kind of reasonings I prefer to keep him to mature age, when his personality is forged and he's ready to learn another great, foundamental concept that is the ground itself of our society:
tolerance.
That is a great great thing but needs strong maturity to be fully developed and not turns against itself...
We see in everyday life: tolerance it's not toward every kind of acts...and the controlling of it needs great intelligence...I wouldn't teach my children tolerance first: I would teach him Love first....but I would spend the rest of my parent's life trying to teach him tolerance...
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Old 04-03-2006, 07:19 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Tommyvill you can edit your posts with the 'edit' buttom.
ehehehe!!!

Is it that clear that I'm almost a newbye?

thank you bonovoxsupastar!
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Old 04-03-2006, 07:24 PM   #75
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: gay parents "comparable" to straight parents

Quote:
Originally posted by tommyvill


They CAN? I need it to be GUARANTEED to accept them to adopt my baby if anything (God forbid!) happens to me!!!
Guaranteed?! Oh, please!!!

There are no guarantees. You can't guarantee that a straight couple will love the child the way it needs to be loved, or that they stay together, or that they will be good parents.
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