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Old 03-29-2006, 07:08 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
American Academy of Pediatrics:

http://www.aap.org/advocacy/archives/febsamesex.htm

"The statement says there is a considerable body of professional literature that suggests children with parents who are homosexual have the same advantages and the same expectations for health, adjustment and development as children whose parents are heterosexual."


American Psychiatric Association:

http://www.psych.org/news_room/press...ting121802.pdf

"Research over the past 30 years has consistently demonstrated that children raised by gay or lesbian parents exhibit the same level of emotional, cognitive, social and sexual functioning as children raised by heterosexual parents. The research also indicates that optimal development for children is not based on the sexual orientation of the parents, but on stable attachments to committed and nurturing adults."


American Psychological Association:

http://www.apa.org/pi/parent.html

"In summary, there is no evidence to suggest that lesbians and gay men are unfit to be parents or that psychosocial development among children of gay men or lesbians is compromised in any respect relative to that among offspring of heterosexual parents. Not a single study has found children of gay or lesbian parents to be disadvantaged in any significant respect relative to children of heterosexual parents. Indeed, the evidence to date suggests that home environments provided by gay and lesbian parents are as likely as those provided by heterosexual parents to support and enable children's psychosocial growth."
Not that conservatives will pay any attention to this.

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Old 03-29-2006, 07:16 PM   #17
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Not that conservatives will pay any attention to this.

Melon
Fucking assholes.....

Oh wait....I think I am a conservative....
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Old 03-29-2006, 07:25 PM   #18
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A question to those who are against gay adoption or gay people raising kids period...do you actually know someone who was raised by gay parents or do you personally know any gay parents? Can you give some actual examples of someone who was confused, messed up or "turned gay" because of their upbringing?

I ask because I know plenty of gay people and 100% of them were raised by straight parents and most had intact homes with both a mother and a father.
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Old 03-29-2006, 07:25 PM   #19
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
Oh wait....I think I am a conservative....
By Ann Coulter's standards, you're a flaming Massachusetts liberal who doesn't want to be associated with crude blue collar laborers. Hence, you are a Republican.

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Old 03-29-2006, 07:27 PM   #20
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Originally posted by Bono's American Wife
A question to those who are against gay adoption or gay people raising kids period...do you actually know someone who was raised by gay parents or do you personally know any gay parents? Can you give some actual examples of someone who was confused, messed up or "turned gay" because of their upbringing?
Armchair bigots!

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Old 03-29-2006, 07:39 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


By Ann Coulter's standards, you're a flaming Massachusetts liberal who doesn't want to be associated with crude blue collar laborers. Hence, you are a Republican.

Melon

Heheh
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Old 03-30-2006, 12:07 AM   #22
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Wow. This must mean that gays have feelings and must actually be people too!

*shocked*
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Old 03-30-2006, 01:26 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


Not that conservatives will pay any attention to this.

Melon
From the American Psychological Association's study you posted:
"It should be acknowledged that research on lesbian and gay parents and their children is still very new and relatively scarce. Less is known about children of gay fathers than about children of lesbian mothers. Little is known about development of the offspring of gay or lesbian parents during adolescence or adulthood. Sources of heterogeneity have yet to be systematically investigated. Longitudinal studies that follow lesbian and gay families over time are badly needed."

After four long paragraphs that point out the flaws in the very study they describe (flaws they themselves acknowledge), it seems to me that any conclusions would be flawed at best.

The American Psychiatric Association's link is a policy statement similar to the one I posted from the NCA, which was summarily ruled out of turn for lacking any real substance. We could do the same here.

And the AAP's statement, which is again a policy statement, states "The statement says there is a considerable body of professional literature that suggests children with parents who are homosexual have the same advantages and the same expectations for health, adjustment and development as children whose parents are heterosexual" -- a conjectural statement at best... note the use of the words "suggests" and "expectations." The cautionary statements by the American Psychological Association regarding no real long-term analysis would seem to be most relevant here.

It seems to me that when it comes to children, when in doubt, don't.
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Old 03-30-2006, 08:06 AM   #24
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It seems to me that when it comes to children, when in doubt, don't.
Whatever. I guess it's better to have opposite sex parents who cuss and make racist comments, argue in front of their children, set unrealistic standards for performance, and, overall, make them feel like they're "just not good enough." Those parents are tried and true!

Those kind of standard disclaimers always remind me of how things are only discovered when straight white people discover them. Nevermind that America was discovered more than 10,000 years ago, and, yet, we give that credit to Christopher Columbus.

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Old 03-30-2006, 08:13 AM   #25
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it seems to me that if same sex couples continue to be restricted from adopting, the studies on whether or not they're effective parents will continue to be scarce and "flawed" due to lack of data. kind of a self fulfilling prophecy, isn't it?
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Old 03-30-2006, 08:18 AM   #26
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I'm just tired of stereotypes that make it sound like same-sex couples are nothing but irresponsible lushes that may or may not molest their children, but will certainly make them emotionally disturbed; while all opposite-sex couples are nothing less than perfection all the time. It's "Leave It to Beaver," guys.

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Old 03-30-2006, 10:13 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977
It seems to me that when it comes to children, when in doubt, don't.


which sort of ignores the fact that straight people shit out kids all the time without a second thought, and i do get a little bit suspicious that using feel-good phrases like "for the children!" (or, you know, "protect marriage!") do well to mask genuine feelings of bigotry (i mean that in general). you're also preventing the question from being asked thus making sure that the assumption that straight parents are superior can't be falsified, and you're saying that gays shouldn't be allowed to raise kids—as they have in the studies reported so far—because children are not guinea pigs, which pretty much means that families are too delicate to research, which still leads us to a situation where there are more kids who need to be adopted than who are adopted and prevents gays and lesbians from forming their own families.

but, anyway, we're at a sort of impasse: you say, since we don't know that kids won't be damaged by gay parents, exclude; and i'm saying, since there's no evidence that gay parenting is bad, include. seems like it's, at best, a tie, that can easily be spun as a win either way -- both "sides" can say the burden of proof is on the other, and it seems to make more sense to me to say, "there's no proof that children are harmed by gay parents" than to say "there's no proof that children aren't harmed by gay parents."

and what would this "harm" look like? no one seems to know.

it seems to me, though, that the first statement is far more empiric, and the 2nd statement relies far more on assumptions and stereotypes, not to mention the sexism latent in any discussion of "natural" gender roles and child development (i.e., fathers masculinize their boys, and mothers civilize them).

and, finally, going back to the argument of providing incentives to encourage more straight people to adopt, to me, this simply reeks of prejudice. for the life of me, i don't understand how a gay couple desperate for a child is automatically a worse candidate for parenthood than a straight couple who have to be coaxed and cajoled into adopting.

the last thing is that there is a genuine human instinct, held by gays and lesbians and straights alike, to create families. there are children who need to be adopted, more children than families who are available, especially once children get past a certain age. so, by excluding well over 11 milllion Americans (that's a conservative estimate, btw) who cannot biologically have children, it seems as if this puts far more children at risk than whatever the "harm" would be done by having them raised by two men or two women. as legalized gay partnerships spread through the states (and they will, as most people under 40 support at the very least Civil Unions, if not outright Marriage Equality), and gay people are finally given the tools to construct stable relationships that have been so long denied to them, there's going to be a stronger push to have children. so, if we deny adoption, gays and lesbians with means are simply going to find sperm and/or egg doners, and perhaps surrogate mothers. gays and lesbians are going to have children anyway -- why wouldn't we let them adopt kids who need homes instead of pumping more money into the fertilization industry (like so many straight couples, but that's another issue ...)?
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Old 03-30-2006, 10:51 AM   #28
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like every child raised by the traditional hetero couple turns out to be a perfect little angel with no issues whatsoever. good parents are good parents and bad parents are bad parents, be they a man and a woman, a man and a man, a woman and a woman or a pack of wild monkeys.
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Old 03-30-2006, 10:59 AM   #29
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Re: Re: gay parents "comparable" to straight parents

Quote:
Originally posted by indra



I guess some people need proof such as this, but when I read it all I could think is "well, DUH!"

It's just so completely obvious.
No, it´s not.

I´m all for gay marriage (no third parties are affected by it). But when it comes to adoption it is kind of a hazy area because you don´t know if the parents´ example can lead the children to think homosexuality is what´s expected for them.

I think more research that is clear and unrefutable should be done before a categorical decision can be made.
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Old 03-30-2006, 11:27 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy


I´m all for gay marriage (no third parties are affected by it).
How generous of you.

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
But when it comes to adoption it is kind of a hazy area because you don´t know if the parents´ example can lead the children to think homosexuality is what´s expected for them.
How about research into how fucked up kids from hetero marriages can be? maybe we should license ALL parents before they can raise children?

I know kids from hetero marriages with really fucked up "expectations."
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