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Old 04-06-2006, 10:29 AM   #136
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Ok I'll answer this.
No I actually didn't said that the research isn't good enough, I'm not a scientist so I couldn't say things like that...but it was incomplete to me, there are some topics that haven't been dealt with it, we need further infos...And I were demonstrated that I'm wrong, well I would be happy for all of those child whoi needs love and family....but we all know a big truth: to love someone doesn't means just love him, we need somthing other. Good feelings aren't enough. And for those things (since I wouldn't suggest a scientifical demostration thru experiment with children ) we need to proceed step by step, and this study that irvine brought us isn't enough to convince me...and there was also that other guy that brought the other documents demonstrating quite the opposite...and I cannot judge the validity of a research and not of the other one...so let's wait.
Ok, make it clear and simple:
the reasons for what i doubt that homofamilies can be "comparable" to straight ones are:
1) they can contitute an involontary misguide to children. NOT because of an INTRINSECAL unfitness of the gays or lesbians for parenthood but because they are models of behaviour for the children in every field and this side has to be clearified by researches. I said that I won't express myself about this. I'll wait.
I can't be any help with this. Let's talk the scientists.
2) adoption in a homofamily can be stressfull for the child. And that's was all that we were talking about, in fact.
Are we there? So we can restart in the right line!
And VintagePunk, as I said, regular family is not a NECESSARY coundition but when there is in a couple, well that's ENOUGH...
1) Much of my existence for the past several years has been devoted to research/reading the research of others/critiquing said research, and examining it for flaws. One thing I can tell you is that research funded/conducted by organizations with a clear agenda is generally not to be trusted. This is what the umbrella of anti gay/lesbian research would fall under, whereas the research showing that homo/straight parents are comparable had been conducted by unbiased sources, and is subject to stringent peer-reviews.

2) How can adoption into homo-families be stressful for the child? Where's the proof? And more importantly, will this stress be of any greater degree than the stress that can also be found in a hetero family?

3)
Quote:
as I said, regular family is not a NECESSARY coundition but when there is in a couple, well that's ENOUGH...
I'm not really sure what you mean by this (although generally, you're quite good at communicating your thoughts in English). Care to elaborate?
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Old 04-06-2006, 10:34 AM   #137
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Originally posted by VintagePunk


Thank you. But reread your post, that's what it sounded like you were saying. So tell me, why is it different for natural parents, as opposed to adoptive parents? A good parent is a good parent, no?
Ok I'm sorry if I'd given you this opinion. I could bring on the fact that english isn't my first language as explaination for this, but I won't. It would be mean and I prefer to take the responsability for anything I said.
Obviously, Natural Parents and Adoptive Parents are the same, legally and in every other single sense...It would be unbearably materialistic to me to think that they're different just because that natural parents didn't physically gave bith to the child.
But we're talking about natural parents and POTENTIAL adoptive parents. Ok? The whole thing is settled BEFORE the choose of giving the child in adoption. And in fact it regards the "fitness" of some individuals to adopt children. Not the qualities or whatsoever. Qualities are referred to the parent himself/herself, "fitness" regards the the parent IN RELATION with the children...you can be the best teacher in the world, the best educator (qualities) but not equally good as a parent (fitness to adoption).
But please once again,your abilities as a parent are NOT something to discuss on, it's absolutely evident how brilliantly your son grew up...
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Old 04-06-2006, 10:35 AM   #138
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Originally posted by tommyvill



2) adoption in a homofamily can be stressfull for the child.
You keep saying this over and over, but what evidence of this do you have?
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Old 04-06-2006, 10:42 AM   #139
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I need help here, sorry but I would like to comment single pieces of statements, but I'm absolutely not able to do that...anyone here have idea on how can I do that? Since the discussion is getting longer and longer, I need it in order to be clear...thanks to who helps me with that!
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Old 04-06-2006, 10:42 AM   #140
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Originally posted by tommyvill


But please once again,your abilities as a parent are NOT something to discuss on, it's absolutely evident how brilliantly your son grew up...
I wasn't trying to be self-indulgent in discussing that, and I apologize if it came across that way. I was only using that as a way of illustrating that different types of family can be as successful as the very best "regular" families, and to show that the same can be extended to gay/lesbian families.

And it's my daughter, btw.
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Old 04-06-2006, 10:49 AM   #141
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Originally posted by tommyvill
I need help here, sorry but I would like to comment single pieces of statements, but I'm absolutely not able to do that...anyone here have idea on how can I do that? Since the discussion is getting longer and longer, I need it in order to be clear...thanks to who helps me with that!
Just go to whatever comment you want to post and press the 'quote' button. You can keep or erase whatever part you want to quote.
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Old 04-07-2006, 11:29 AM   #142
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I thinking about all this this morning on my walk. It's hard not to let your mind wander whilst walking around in the dark.

I have a feeling that research will eventually find that overall, gay parents are better parents that straight parents. A good portion of straight parents are parents by accident, with most of those kids an unwanted accident. (I know. I have them in my class every year.) Gay parents have to be committed to being parents before they start, because it's such an ordeal to obtain their children, whether through adoption or other, more intrusive, medical means. This means that they may take raising their kids more seriously than so many straight parents do.

Now, settle down before your panties wad up and think about it. Think of all the kids you know being raised by parents who could give a damn about how their kids are being raised. Are those parents accidental parents? Yep.

You'd think that the anti-choice rabble would be freaking clamoring for gay adoption, because they make so much racket about adoption. But they don't because their cause is all about control, and not letting gays and lesbians adopt the legion of babies that straight women have been forced to carry to term helps them maintain more control over the elements of the population they find distasteful.
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Old 04-07-2006, 11:39 AM   #143
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha
I thinking about all this this morning on my walk. It's hard not to let your mind wander whilst walking around in the dark.

I have a feeling that research will eventually find that overall, gay parents are better parents that straight parents. A good portion of straight parents are parents by accident, with most of those kids an unwanted accident. (I know. I have them in my class every year.) Gay parents have to be committed to being parents before they start, because it's such an ordeal to obtain their children, whether through adoption or other, more intrusive, medical means. This means that they may take raising their kids more seriously than so many straight parents do.

Now, settle down before your panties wad up and think about it. Think of all the kids you know being raised by parents who could give a damn about how their kids are being raised. Are those parents accidental parents? Yep.

You'd think that the anti-choice rabble would be freaking clamoring for gay adoption, because they make so much racket about adoption. But they don't because their cause is all about control, and not letting gays and lesbians adopt the legion of babies that straight women have been forced to carry to term helps them maintain more control over the elements of the population they find distasteful.




kick-ass post.
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Old 04-07-2006, 12:18 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha
I thinking about all this this morning on my walk. It's hard not to let your mind wander whilst walking around in the dark.

I have a feeling that research will eventually find that overall, gay parents are better parents that straight parents. A good portion of straight parents are parents by accident, with most of those kids an unwanted accident. (I know. I have them in my class every year.) Gay parents have to be committed to being parents before they start, because it's such an ordeal to obtain their children, whether through adoption or other, more intrusive, medical means. This means that they may take raising their kids more seriously than so many straight parents do.

Now, settle down before your panties wad up and think about it. Think of all the kids you know being raised by parents who could give a damn about how their kids are being raised. Are those parents accidental parents? Yep.

You'd think that the anti-choice rabble would be freaking clamoring for gay adoption, because they make so much racket about adoption. But they don't because their cause is all about control, and not letting gays and lesbians adopt the legion of babies that straight women have been forced to carry to term helps them maintain more control over the elements of the population they find distasteful.
This is the best post in this incredibly drawn out discussion. Never fails to astound me how common sense gets muddled by intellectual babble and biased research.

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Old 04-07-2006, 12:29 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha
I thinking about all this this morning on my walk. It's hard not to let your mind wander whilst walking around in the dark.

I have a feeling that research will eventually find that overall, gay parents are better parents that straight parents. A good portion of straight parents are parents by accident, with most of those kids an unwanted accident. (I know. I have them in my class every year.) Gay parents have to be committed to being parents before they start, because it's such an ordeal to obtain their children, whether through adoption or other, more intrusive, medical means. This means that they may take raising their kids more seriously than so many straight parents do.

Now, settle down before your panties wad up and think about it. Think of all the kids you know being raised by parents who could give a damn about how their kids are being raised. Are those parents accidental parents? Yep.

You'd think that the anti-choice rabble would be freaking clamoring for gay adoption, because they make so much racket about adoption. But they don't because their cause is all about control, and not letting gays and lesbians adopt the legion of babies that straight women have been forced to carry to term helps them maintain more control over the elements of the population they find distasteful.

I absolutely agree with this.
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Old 04-07-2006, 12:30 PM   #146
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Originally posted by martha
You'd think that the anti-choice rabble would be freaking clamoring for gay adoption, because they make so much racket about adoption.
Indeed, you would think so, yes. But eh, that's too logical, I guess, or something.

Bah. Anywho, I'll second the others. Superb post. Very well put.

Angela
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Old 04-07-2006, 12:50 PM   #147
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"I have a feeling that research will eventually find that overall, gay parents are better parents that straight parents."

Sorry, gang. But the emperor really has no clothes on this one.

We really aren't talking about equality at all here, are we?
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Old 04-07-2006, 12:56 PM   #148
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I think what martha means is, although I'm not speaking for her, all other things being equal, gay parents always make the conscious, informed decision to be parents and straight parents do not.

Making an informed decision on anything generally has a better outcome than leaving things to chance.
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Old 04-07-2006, 01:24 PM   #149
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Originally posted by AliEnvy
I think what martha means is, although I'm not speaking for her, all other things being equal, gay parents always make the conscious, informed decision to be parents and straight parents do not.

Making an informed decision on anything generally has a better outcome than leaving things to chance.
That's exactly what I meant.
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Old 04-07-2006, 01:27 PM   #150
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Originally posted by nathan1977
"I have a feeling that research will eventually find that overall, gay parents are better parents that straight parents."

Sorry, gang. But the emperor really has no clothes on this one.

We really aren't talking about equality at all here, are we?
What does this mean? What equality? The equality you're willing to extend to gay parents? Oh wait. There's none of that, is there?


By blocking gay adoption, you're ensuring that they'll never have a chance to be proven good parents. And please stop hiding behind the diapers and saying that you "don't want to experiment with children." There are PLENTY of very successful families with gay parents.
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