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Old 04-04-2005, 12:58 AM   #46
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Okay, earlier I mentioned that the minimum wage hasn't gone up in 10 years...okay, so I meant in 7 years. There, it hasn't gone up in 7 years...and I said it hadn't gone up in 10 years. Now, that I've addressed how off I was, let me continue.

Americans are going to be screwed within the next 10 years. Screwed in the bad, Cagliga sense of the term; not in the Paris Hilton home video porn sense. We have built our cities too far apart, too far away from major water sources, and too far the main streets and downtowns that used to inhabit the vast majority of our population. This means that all those suburbs, all those giant expressways, and all those country villas will go to waste. Sadly, I feel bad for those who depend on such things. Why? Because I'm one of them, and it's going to hurt my lifestyle as well.

What we need a massive public transportation system and a plan to build everything within reason, along these lines. If we can form these plans, and run these giant transit systems with solar power sources, it's my belief that life will go on rather similarly to it's current form.
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Old 04-04-2005, 03:30 AM   #47
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Here in the UK I pay 83.9 pence per litre. I understand that there is 3.785 litres to the US gallon, which means I pay £3.18 for a US gallon

that works out at US$5.97490 per gallon

so it really confuses me when americans say that their petrol is expensive. Personally I think it should be a damn sight MORE expensive. Maybe then there woudl be some more pavements built and people might start walking to the shops

Obviously there are a lot of people who physically need their cars to get to places, and I'm not disputing that. But I couldn't believe how much people used their cars when I spent a month in the states. In a lot of the places I went, it was physically impossible to walk from one shop to the other. and as for crossing the road as a pedestrian.....
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Old 04-04-2005, 05:06 AM   #48
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Here in the UK I pay 83.9 pence per litre.
Ditto
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Old 04-04-2005, 06:50 AM   #49
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So don't tell people to stop using cars, force them to by taxation .
and we can combine this taxation, with tax incentives to make "greener" decisions -- like tax breaks for the purchase of a Prius or some car that gets 60+ miles to the gallon.



i'm sorry, i simply remain unsympathetic to those who have to drive a lot and pay a lot at the pump. everyone else in the world pays more than you (my fellow Americans, i'm looking in your direction), and you've made the decision to live where you live. so, therefore, when you budget out your monthly expenses, i'm sure gas takes a greater chunk of change than it used to, and while i'm sure that's inconvenient, it's really only a problem because it is a tax you actually see as opposed to the taxes you don't see. hopefully, this will get us all to think better about how much gas and oil we consume, and make better decisions.

something's gotta give.
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Old 04-04-2005, 06:56 AM   #50
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and you've made the decision to live where you live.
Irvine, I agree with just about everything you've said (as an American who's looking blissfully forward to the day she can sell her car), but this one small point is a bit off the mark. It's one thing to say that when, say, apartments are available in the city and one flees to the sterile McSuburbs...that does bug me. But many, many people work in major industrial/commercial areas with no housing physically nearby. They have to live some amount of driving distance from their jobs because we've gotten so fussy about where we can have housing and where we can have industry. There are several areas like this near where I live.

Improved public transport could take care of this problem, but that is a dream for almost anyone living outside a major urban area. In the town in which I grew up, the buses stopped running at 6 p.m. 6 p.m.! So good luck going shopping if you don't have a car and if you, like most people, work all day.
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Old 04-04-2005, 07:24 AM   #51
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I remember when the gas prices started going up and people had a total shit fit.
They said that if prices kept going up they were going to stop driving I would have but I lived 20 minutes driving distance from any sort of civilization and it just wasnt practical, plus my significant other lived 45 minutes away from me.
My point is that when I was listening to the radio this morning somebody was talking about how since the prices went up the consumption of gas has gone down ZERO. Americans are using no less than they were before.
Now that I live in the suburbs I walk to work, and ride with my fiance. When I get a car it will be a small one that gets good gas mileage and I will only use it when I need to, but sometimes you NEED to use the car. Simple.
When I lived out in the country there were people that were getting stranded out in their homes because they couldnt afford to fill up their tank anymore. These were people driving ford escorts and the like.
Its impractical to expect public transportation to reach to the very edges of civilization everywhere. Its never going to happen.
I really have no answer to this problem other than to push vehicles that use less.
On the minimum wage note, in oregon where I used to live minimum wage was $6.90 and going up
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Old 04-04-2005, 07:58 AM   #52
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and you've made the decision to live where you live.
Right, and what is everyone supposed to do now? Make a mad dash for the ghetto so they can live on the fucking bus line? You still don't get it. Have you never been out of the DC area? I have lived in the suburbs all my life, and have traveled extensively in the US, and you just don't understand that most people live in outlying areas, are many miles from cities, or even in some cases way way out in rural areas. It is ridiculous and unrealistic to move every single one of these people who number in the tens of millions to the city and abandon everything else! Please get real!

It's also outrageous to think taxes are going to work, they are never going to work because of gov't mismanagement and waste (under any regime!) and even if they did work it would take many years and people have to live NOW! Taxes? Forcing companies to make small cars? You scare me. Big gov't is NOT the answer, it's always been the problem in this country!
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Old 04-04-2005, 08:00 AM   #53
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Oh and if you're so sure the gov't should do something, how about releasing those emergency stores of fuel!

and if you must legislate something, how about sponsoring some US based refineries and other things in the industry, or setting limits on price gouging! No, I'm still not for big gov't but there are better things the gov't could do to help than take more of our money
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Old 04-04-2005, 08:11 AM   #54
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Right, and what is everyone supposed to do now? Make a mad dash for the ghetto so they can live on the fucking bus line? You still don't get it. Have you never been out of the DC area? I have lived in the suburbs all my life, and have traveled extensively in the US, and you just don't understand that most people live in outlying areas, are many miles from cities, or even in some cases way way out in rural areas. It is ridiculous and unrealistic to move every single one of these people who number in the tens of millions to the city and abandon everything else! Please get real!

U2Kitten, that reply might have been a bit harsh. Remember we're debating ideas, not people.
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Old 04-04-2005, 08:22 AM   #55
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what bugs me the most about all of this is that people seem to be forgetting that the supplies of oil are very much finite. The quicker we slow down consumption, the longer those supplies will last.

I have no doubt that future generations will be gobsmacked at the wasteful habits of today
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Old 04-04-2005, 08:24 AM   #56
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were getting gobsmacked right now
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Old 04-04-2005, 08:27 AM   #57
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Old 04-04-2005, 09:35 AM   #58
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Right, and what is everyone supposed to do now? Make a mad dash for the ghetto so they can live on the fucking bus line? You still don't get it. Have you never been out of the DC area? I have lived in the suburbs all my life, and have traveled extensively in the US, and you just don't understand that most people live in outlying areas, are many miles from cities, or even in some cases way way out in rural areas. It is ridiculous and unrealistic to move every single one of these people who number in the tens of millions to the city and abandon everything else! Please get real!

It's also outrageous to think taxes are going to work, they are never going to work because of gov't mismanagement and waste (under any regime!) and even if they did work it would take many years and people have to live NOW! Taxes? Forcing companies to make small cars? You scare me. Big gov't is NOT the answer, it's always been the problem in this country!

i grew up in the suburbs, went to college in the sticks, and now live in a major city. i've also lived in Europe. i'm still not sympathetic.

your post is too over-emotional to really respond to. i'm not saying that no one should drive, i am saying that there is a higher cost to driving, and that the money has to come from somewhere. i'm not sympathetic to those that live in the new exurbs, outside of the suburbs, because, again, most people who choose to live there do so for cheaper property so they can have bigger houses (which they then must heat in the winter).

the rest of your post is too inane to respond to, and way too personal. you seem to have no idea that the roads you drive on come from taxes to begin with.

i'm glad i scare you.
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Old 04-04-2005, 09:42 AM   #59
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Please, of course I know roads come from taxes! But more big gov't is not the answer. Besides, by the time the gov't pays for all these new roads, new cars, new sidewalks, etc., they could have just subsidized gas prices and lowered them!

I still think the answer is releasing the emergency stores, just temporarily, and I believe if people are too complacent they'll think we don't care and continue to shit all over us. We have to let them know we won't take it.

Irvine, I am sorry to see you are still not sympathetic to the tens of millions of Americans for whom your plans are unrealistic, unattainable, and far fetched.

and you wouldn't be so glad to know you 'scare' me if you knew that you 'scare' me in the same way Bush and the religious right 'scare' you. It's not cool.
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Old 04-04-2005, 09:55 AM   #60
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Well, okay, Irvine, but I did make some of the same points.

What did you think of my post?

And remember...ideas...not people...
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